2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Cowtownred]

Surely Buffalo ask for Valamaki. No way ideal for Flames, but for the opportunity to get a true #1 centre, you have to do it.

[GioforPM]

On Eichel’s cap - if it’s Monahan and, say Hanifin that go, that’s more than Eichel makes.

Of course, Buffalo has to make their cap work too, and the teams have about the same room (negligible) at the moment.

[bax]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Is it? We have struggled to do so for years now.

I am not disagreeing, but as pointed out above we have had a really crummy looking cast of regular bottom 6 players for a few years now.

Well Dube and Mangiapane have performed well in depth roles. You hope similar prospects can do the same. Guys like Gawdin, Phillips, Zary, Pelletier, Petterson, Ruzcika, Zary, Francis, Kerins, etc.

We have signed useful depth players in free agency- Ryan and Frolik come to mind.

Teams have always been able to pick up quality depth players in trade and free agency. The opportunities are far more common. Players like Eichel aren't common to acquire unless you are drafting them.

I mean what else is the alternative? I think it's fairly accepted that our top end guys aren't consistently good enough to win a cup. If Eichel does become available you do whatever you can to make him the guy that you're building around for the next 5 years instead of Monahan.

[GioforPM]

Treliving’s depth signings have been probably the same as most GMs - hits and misses. Forbort and Gus were decent depth D. Reider was useful. I actually didn’t dislike what Rinaldo brought in small doses. Stone version I was was pretty good (shouldn’t have re-signed him at the dollars). Versteeg was a decent pickup.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Monahan, Hanifin, Bennett, 1st, Zary

For Eichel, Montour

Cap works out perfectly and Buffalo has been needing to swap a RHD for LHD for a years.

It’s a pipe dream to think this will ever happen as he will likely goto NYR or LA IMO.

I like it. Get it done Tre.

[Calgary4LIfe]

For Eichel, there won't be a single piece in the organization that the Flames could possibly say no to. Valimaki, Gaudreau, Lindholm, etc. I am not even sure how high that package would be, but it would be a huge package. I think Eichel is a relative bargain contract in comparison to some 'superstar' contracts being handed out (he makes just 1 million bucks more than his team mate Skinner).


I wonder what a legitimate package would look like. Just as interestingly, I wonder what that package looks like with Skinner. Curious to see how much the package would decrease by (and I think a LOT). I think it would devalue the deal so much that I wouldn't know where to start in balancing out the cap hit (and I assume Lucic wouldn't waive to go to Buffalo).


Monahan + Ryan +1st for Eichel and Skinner. Money doesn't balance out. You still have to add basically 9 million (Skinner's salary) to the deal, and I don't think I would want to add more than that.


Is the gap between Eichel and Monahan worth a first and 9 million worth of practical dead cap space for 6 more years after this season (seeing Monahan + Ryan is just shy of Eichel's cap hit).



Once again, there is no way that Lucic is going to waive to go to Buffalo.



I would not want to add more to Monahan + Ryan + 1st if Skinner is coming along.


Would be fricken amazing if that was the deal, AND Skinner rebounded into a 60pt + player. That's a Stanley Cup winning move. What is more likely to happen is that Skinner ties Calgary's hands in making needed moves and re-signing key players to build a contender, and Calgary just continues spinning their wheels.


That Skinner contract is something awful, and I am not sure how to make that contract work work on the cap - assuming Buffalo doesn't agree to retain the max amount of 50%.


Monahan + Hanifin + Ryan + 1st for Eichel + Skinner (50% retained) = that's about as far as I go, as I think Skinner is looking like he may just be out of the league. I guess it depends on how poorly you view him as. I see a 4.5 dead cap hit for 6 more seasons as being difficult to manage on a cup-contending team. Tampa wasn't able to unload Tyler Johnson for free for 5.25 (I think??) on waivers, even though he is a very useful player. 4.5 of dead cap is a LOT to work around.

[GioforPM]

How can you deal Monahan for Eichel when Monahan has more goals and points and costs almost $4M less?

[Moneyhands23]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

How can you deal Monahan for Eichel when Monahan has more goals and points and costs almost $4M less?

They better throw in a 1st

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

How can you deal Monahan for Eichel when Monahan has more goals and points and costs almost $4M less?

Honestly, IMO, not that outlandish of a question. If Eichel came here and performed the way he has this season we would all be absolutely livid.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Honestly, IMO, not that outlandish of a question. If Eichel came here and performed the way he has this season we would all be absolutely livid.

I’m already livid because I took Eichel in my pool. Also “I think I will criticize Putin - what could go wrong” Panarin, and “I think I will start the year after everyone else” Petterson.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I’m already livid because I took Eichel in my pool. Also “I think I will criticize Putin - what could go wrong” Panarin, and “I think I will start the year after everyone else” Petterson.

These are all clearly convenient excuses. It is obvious that they are doing this to spite you.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

How can you deal Monahan for Eichel when Monahan has more goals and points and costs almost $4M less?

Lol.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

He's the sort of centerpiece you need to compete though.

If he's here long enough to build around him then, long term, he may very well be worth the subtractions. If you're thinking right now, short term, then yeah I can see why you may perceive it that way.

You have to give up to get the right foundation for a winning team. We have the goalie but not the game changer up front.

As it stands, its unlikely that we have the bones at forward to push for a cup. After building for 3 years with Eichel in the middle, we might have everything we need to make a run.

The problem is every one here is looking for the shortcut there.

There is no shortcut.

I understand that, but this doesn't just cost us short-term pieces, it will cost us long-term pieces that hurt our ability to build a team around him.

So the key word there is "might."

Losing young guys outside of the center position plus top prospects and 1st rounders makes the road to building around Eichel very difficult. Plus, the salary. Let's say we keep Gaudreau and Tkachuk. It's realistic that those three will cost us $27M-30M alone. Just quick math, in three years with the addition of Eichel and the subtraction of Monahan and a defenceman worth about 4.5M, we're spending $58M on 5 forwards (3 c, 2 w), 3 defencemen, and a goalie. Top 6 and top 4 guys pull around 4.5 on average, so filling out the top 6 and top 4 that leaves us with about $8M (if the cap doesn't go up, which it should, but maybe not much) for 5-6 forwards (4 w, 1 c, an extra), 3-4 defencemen, and a backup.

This is really just to illustrate that this requires some fantasy to wrap your head around. If we lose Monahan and Valimaki for Eichel, for example, and re-sign Tkachuk and Gaudreau, in three years we will also be without Gio, Lucic, Dube, Mangiapane, and Bennett. If you want to keep one of the forwards, you are moving Lindholm, or Backlund. If you want to keep two, you're moving Gaudreau or Tkachuk. And that still leaves you with bargain basement contracts filling out nearly half the roster. And when you move a top prospect and a 1st, it makes it harder to fill those spots with high-performing ELCs within that time. You also, of course, can't retain any salary on the guys you move.

So really, I'm not entirely against moving for Eichel. But people should understand that A) it is unlikely it will provide an immediate improvement, but he's a fantastic building block and B) building around him will mean saying goodbye to more great players than those included in the trade and will leave major holes in the lineup for 5+ years.

Look at Buffalo and Edmonton. Hell, look at Chicago. Your window with elite talent exists for the most part when they are on entry-level and sweetheart deals. Once these guys are clocking in at $10M it's pretty freakin hard to build a successful team around them. More so when you have 2-3 guys making over $8M. It's debilitating. It's possible to do it and to win, but don't expect to do it with even 2/3 of the players on the team right now. Most of the team is going bye bye in 3 years. Which is fine, but it does not mean we are ahead of where we are today.

People hoping for Eichel are hoping for a big improvement. The only thing they are guaranteed is a different situation with different holes, doesn't mean it'll be a better one.

[Demetric]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Monahan, Hanifin, Bennett, 1st, Zary

For Eichel, Montour

Cap works out perfectly and Buffalo has been needing to swap a RHD for LHD for a years.

It’s a pipe dream to think this will ever happen as he will likely goto NYR or LA IMO.

I think you could likely get away with sending Phillips instead of Zary and the 1st would need to be next years as we would be short staffed for 2 weeks due to covid rules which very likely puts us out of playoffs

[GioforPM]

It’s a decent argument, but Chicago won a cup not only with Kane and Toews on ELCs, but also in 2015 on contracts which were, at the time, pretty rich. Along with Keith, Hossa and Crawford at pretty expensive contracts for the time.

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by SeanCharles

Monahan, Hanifin, Bennett, 1st, Zary

For Eichel, Montour

Cap works out perfectly and Buffalo has been needing to swap a RHD for LHD for a years.

It’s a pipe dream to think this will ever happen as he will likely goto NYR or LA IMO.

I don't think it's a pipe dream. LA and NYR would only have mostly prospects to offer up. Buffalo isn't interested in another rebuild. I think any deal that includes Monahan ++ is stronger than adding prospects and players. Monahan is still at a good age and as much as we are critical about him, he is proven to produce.

Forget Eichel for a second and think about any team that adds a Monahan, Hanifin, Bennett, 1st overall, Zary to their system, that's a pretty big add no matter how you slice and dice it. That's also a pretty significant offer that I'm not sure other teams could match.

[edslunch]

I might have missed it but is Eichel on the trading block?

[Vinny01]

I don’t see any chance the Sabres entertain a deal that sends Eichel to the Flames unless Tkachuk is part of the package. I don’t see why they would accept a deal that centers around 26 year old Monahan, 24 year old Hanifin. If Eichel goes the Sabres are heading toward another rebuild.

To me it is the Rangers that make the perfect fit. An offer around Lafreniere+Kakko+cap would likely beat any offer the Flames or another team would make.

Tkachuk+Mangiapane+Dube might make them take a long hard look though

[genetic_phreek]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I might have missed it but is Eichel on the trading block?

Everyone is for the right price.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I might have missed it but is Eichel on the trading block?

Sabres are brutal again and questions are starting to be asked how much longer he can put up with it. He is also having a bad season