2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[bax]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Why would the Flames do this?

What does adding Eichel to this roster do?

Especially after subtracting what you seem to think it would take.

Really? You add a 24 year old superstar center locked up long term. It's good now, it's good for the future. I don't know if people realize how good Eichel is.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Why would the Flames do this?

What does adding Eichel to this roster do?

Especially after subtracting what you seem to think it would take.

Did you watch the 2019 Avs series?

Eichel does, more-or-less, for us what MacKinnon did for the Avs

[PepsiFree]

I think everyone understands how good Eichel is.

What people seem to be saying is that the improvement over Monahan is likely not worth how much else you'd realistically have to give up.

It's not like Eichel is an addition without subtraction. The subtractions would be significant, and may not be worth the addition.

[bax]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I think everyone understands how good Eichel is.

What people seem to be saying is that the improvement over Monahan is likely not worth how much else you'd realistically have to give up.

It's not like Eichel is an addition without subtraction. The subtractions would be significant, and may not be worth the addition.

Eichel is a top 5 center in the league. The type of player that is ridiculously rare to acquire. You take that swing 100% of the time. Especially if you can do it without giving up Gaudreau, Tkachuk, or Lindholm.

[agulati]

If the wizard is able to work his magic, sure try to get Eichel.

Don't want to gut the roster to get him though. On the flip side, an elite centre is a very rare commodity in the league.

[Monahammer]

Trading for eichel also hurts the overall roster depth, which continues to be a problem as the bottom end of our roster contributes virtually nothing 5 v 5, and has not all season.

So we might just be digging ourselves into a bigger problem longer term by making Monahan's really palatable contract into a fair value but hefty eichel contract. I guess it depends how much the cap will go up in 2 years ish.

[agulati]

One thing about Tre is that it seems like he sets a price in his mind and doesn't budge much. We have missed out on a few rumored trades previously due to this.

A good thing in this situation IMO. Are there any legs to this, or is this just armchair GMing?

[neo45]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Trading for eichel also hurts the overall roster depth, which continues to be a problem as the bottom end of our roster contributes virtually nothing 5 v 5, and has not all season.

So we might just be digging ourselves into a bigger problem longer term by making Monahan's really palatable contract into a fair value but hefty eichel contract. I guess it depends how much the cap will go up in 2 years ish.

Treliving’s inability to find useful roster depth is among his biggest flaws as a GM

During his tenure the following players have played for us IN PLAYOFFS:

- Rinaldo
- Bollig
- Neal
- Bartkowski

And not really as fill-ins either. Those guys dressed for most games. So I’m all for an Eichel trade I just don’t want Brad filling in the holes it will inevitably leave

[bax]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Trading for eichel also hurts the overall roster depth, which continues to be a problem as the bottom end of our roster contributes virtually nothing 5 v 5, and has not all season.

So we might just be digging ourselves into a bigger problem longer term by making Monahan's really palatable contract into a fair value but hefty eichel contract. I guess it depends how much the cap will go up in 2 years ish.

It's much easier to address depth at the bottom of the roster than it is to address elite skill at the top of the roster.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by bax

It's much easier to address depth at the bottom of the roster than it is to address elite skill at the top of the roster.

Is it? We have struggled to do so for years now.

I am not disagreeing, but as pointed out above we have had a really crummy looking cast of regular bottom 6 players for a few years now.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by bax

Eichel is a top 5 center in the league. The type of player that is ridiculously rare to acquire. You take that swing 100% of the time. Especially if you can do it without giving up Gaudreau, Tkachuk, or Lindholm.

Of course he is, and of course you take the swing.

But, realistically, you aren't likely to connect on that swing without gutting the roster or putting the team in trouble otherwise. That's why people are questioning it. If we're talking fantasy, sure. If we're talking reality, going after Eichel is probably pointless.

You lose one of Monahan, Lindholm, Gaudreau, or Tkachuk. 100%
Then you're probably going to add an Andersson, Hanifin, Mangiapane, Dube, something like that depending on how good the first big piece is.
Then you're adding Zary, Pelletier, Valimaki, etc.
Then you're adding a 1st, at least.

That's probably the bones of a deal. Salaries would have to balance out, etc, but rare, top 5 players are not acquired without rare, top 5 offers.

Make that trade, is the team better? Maybe not. Great piece to build around, but we're worse tomorrow than we are today if we make it. It'd likely be a one step back for two steps forward scenario, and that's if it works out.

I don't see a realistic trade scenario where we don't give up more than we're getting back in the short term.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by neo45

Treliving’s inability to find useful roster depth is among his biggest flaws as a GM

During his tenure the following players have played for us IN PLAYOFFS:

- Rinaldo
- Bollig
- Neal
- Bartkowski

And not really as fill-ins either. Those guys dressed for most games. So I’m all for an Eichel trade I just don’t want Brad filling in the holes it will inevitably leave

The poor performance of depth players is frustrating but a couple things
- Neal was not intended to be a depth player. He was never going to excel in that role. It was top 6 or bust. So the move certainly warrants criticism (and a lot of it) but is not a failure in acquiring poor depth
- My view is that for the most part the performance of the depth players hasn't been a material driver of lack of playoff success. They have exited early because their top players have been outplayed by the other team's top players. That's it. And that's typical - you win or lose with your top guys in the playoffs.
- And in fact, in some cases there has been strong depth player performance. Dube had 4 goals last year, Bennett had 8 points, Lucic had 6 point, Rider had 3 goals. Didn't matter. Which goes back to my second point.

Depth players are easy to criticize and when picks were used to acquire those guys - it is a valid criticism I suppose. But I don't think it actually matters much.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Of course he is, and of course you take the swing.

But, realistically, you aren't likely to connect on that swing without gutting the roster or putting the team in trouble otherwise. That's why people are questioning it. If we're talking fantasy, sure. If we're talking reality, going after Eichel is probably pointless.

You lose one of Monahan, Lindholm, Gaudreau, or Tkachuk. 100%
Then you're probably going to add an Andersson, Hanifin, Mangiapane, Dube, something like that depending on how good the first big piece is.
Then you're adding Zary, Pelletier, Valimaki, etc.
Then you're adding a 1st, at least.

That's probably the bones of a deal. Salaries would have to balance out, etc, but rare, top 5 players are not acquired without rare, top 5 offers.

Make that trade, is the team better? Maybe not. Great piece to build around, but we're worse tomorrow than we are today if we make it. It'd likely be a one step back for two steps forward scenario, and that's if it works out.

I don't see a realistic trade scenario where we don't give up more than we're getting back in the short term.

I make that trade all day. Any player he replaces - he’s better than that guy and he makes whoever is on that line better. It’s probably Lindholm or Monahan because of position, so now you have Eichel lining with Gaudreau or Tkachuk (and you still have Lindholm or Monahan with the other one). The team can probably afford to lose a good young D (more than Mangiapane or Dube) and I’m not too scared of giving up a mid level prospect like Zary or Pelletier.

[Bonded]

Is Eichel fast?
If so you can probably dangle Lindholm, if he is slow it would have to be Monahan.

[agulati]

Giving up an extra forward probably is the preference, since we might be losing one in the expansion draft in any case. If Bennett is rumoured to have some value, and keeps building that during the year, he (or one of Mangiapane or Dube) becomes an attractive adder to the deal for Eichel. I ideally wouldn't want to lose any of them, but with the Seattle draft looming, wouldn't it be preferable to get some value as opposed to losing them for nothing.

Draft protection: Eichel, Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Lindholm/Monahan, 3 of Backlund/Mangiapane/Dube/Bennett.

Draft Protection D: Andersson, Hanifin, Giordano/Tanev

[3rd Degree]

I think they should start by looking in the mirror, for once, and determine that they are not likely to win the cup this year. Combine that with the fact there are no fans in the stands and determine that this is the perfect time for a retool. Then, eat half of Gaudreau’s contract to maximize his value and ship him to a contender for an absolute treasure trove of assets. Do the same with Gio. Ship Monahan and some/all of these new assets to Buffalo for Eichel.

The team will be weakened this year, which will lead to a higher pick. These trades also ensure we lose nothing of value in the expansion draft. Next year you have some dead cap space so the team won’t be at full strength yet. That’s ok because you give the new core time to gel. If this results in missing the playoffs, that means a higher pick. The following year you’re free of the dead weight cap wise, you have a few new top prospects, and most importantly have a true young stud centre to build around.

Johnny Gaudreau is not built for playoff hockey. He disappears every year once the whistles get put away. Is that a guy you want to re-sign to a massive long term deal?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Is Eichel fast?
If so you can probably dangle Lindholm, if he is slow it would have to be Monahan.

Eichel is a very fast skater.

My personal preference is Monahan (plus) for Eichel.

Keeping Lindholm to be the 2nd line C would be crucial in my eyes. If you manage to keep Tkachuk also, well then you've really got something brewing then.

Gaudreau - Eichel - XXXXX
Tkachuk - Lindholm - XXXXX


That's the start of a really solid top 6, and with Eichel/Lindholm being right hand shots, it lessens the importance having a right shooting winger added to fill those lines out IMO.

Yes, the "plus" would need to be significant
Yes, some cap would need to be cleared somehow
Hopefully some cap is taken in the off season by Seattle, IE Backlund or Giordano


I dunno:

Monahan, Bennett, 2021 1st, Zary or Pelletier


If Buffalo decided to move Eichel for whatever reason, that's got to be in the ball park IMO.

[jg13]

Just recently got announced McCabe is out 6-8 months for Buffalo on defence as well.

Wonder if they'd want a dman coming back or if that doesn't matter in their long term plans. Just a thought considering all these proposals involve 3-4 pieces with almost all of them involving only offensive pieces.

[SeanCharles]

Monahan, Hanifin, Bennett, 1st, Zary

For Eichel, Montour

Cap works out perfectly and Buffalo has been needing to swap a RHD for LHD for a years.

It’s a pipe dream to think this will ever happen as he will likely goto NYR or LA IMO.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I think everyone understands how good Eichel is.

What people seem to be saying is that the improvement over Monahan is likely not worth how much else you'd realistically have to give up.

It's not like Eichel is an addition without subtraction. The subtractions would be significant, and may not be worth the addition.

He's the sort of centerpiece you need to compete though.

If he's here long enough to build around him then, long term, he may very well be worth the subtractions. If you're thinking right now, short term, then yeah I can see why you may perceive it that way.

You have to give up to get the right foundation for a winning team. We have the goalie but not the game changer up front.

As it stands, its unlikely that we have the bones at forward to push for a cup. After building for 3 years with Eichel in the middle, we might have everything we need to make a run.

The problem is every one here is looking for the shortcut there.

There is no shortcut.