Israel declares war on Hamas

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I don't think his post warranted your response. There are a lot of factors built into Palestinian society that motivates hatred, including schools, mosques and other sources of propaganda.

I think you might have to invest some time to understand what is taking place in Gaza. Israel left the area about 20 years ago and Hamas has ruled them since with an agenda to murder jews everywhere. The population supports Hamas. To deny what was posted is a terrible mistake.

Really. I thought I was rather measured. I didn’t even suggest he was wrong for having such a belief. I suggested that his belief was very dangerous and can be used to justify any manner of atrocity. So if that’s the type of thing you believe you better make sure it’s right. I’m not interested in debating if it is right or not that is up for him to decide.

He posted he believes that every Palestinian believes they have the right to murder Jews?

Do you believe that too?

If so all of your posting is very rational and supports this core belief in the evil nature of the enemy. Essentially it answers the question of how you support the current death and displacement of a civilian population.

[SutterBrother]

Israeli minister Gantz resigns from Netanyahu war cabinet.

Says Netanyahu is preventing victory over Hamas, urges him to accept ceasefire. Calls for elections in the fall.

Axios article

Gantz said Netanyahu's promise for total victory against Hamas was empty and that Israelis deserve "a real victory" that "puts the release of the hostages above political survival."

"Netanyahu prevents us from getting a real victory. This is why we are leaving the government with a heavy heart but a full heart," Gantz said.

He said he supports the hostage deal proposal the war cabinet approved and President Biden is urging Hamas and Israel to accept. "I demand Netanyahu to stand clearly behind it and do everything in order to make it happen," Gantz said.

Gantz also called for a national commission of inquiry into Oct. 7 to be formed as soon as possible.

An change in Israeli government is the most likely way to end the conflict in Gaza IMO. Hamas can't be defeated, and international pressure won't have any effect. The arab states have no interest in taking in the Palestinians, to the only way this stops is if the Israeli people move forward with different approaches.

Netanyahu is going to lose more of his coalition as time passes, and an outcome where he winds up on trial for Oct 7th is probably inevitable.

I doubt he's ever going to be held accountable for the Palestinian deaths of course.

What a stupid religious mess that region is.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by GGG

Really. I thought I was rather measured. I didn’t even suggest he was wrong for having such a belief. I suggested that his belief was very dangerous and can be used to justify any manner of atrocity. So if that’s the type of thing you believe you better make sure it’s right. I’m not interested in debating if it is right or not that is up for him to decide.

He posted he believes that every Palestinian believes they have the right to murder Jews?

Do you believe that too?

If so all of your posting is very rational and supports this core belief in the evil nature of the enemy. Essentially it answers the question of how you support the current death and displacement of a civilian population.

Your exact words were "If your last paragraph is what you believe I see why you support the murder of Palestinian civilians". I don't believe he wants to see any innocent people murdered.

That belief is not dangerous, it is based on facts. For decades, multiple nations have radicalized their citizens, including those in Gaza. Much of the evidence regarding UNRWA has focused on educating Palestinians into believing they will eventually win and destroy Israel. I certainly don't want to see any violence, but that doesn't mean I am naive into believing Palestinians in general want to live in Peace with their Israeli neighbors. Israel has massive security for that specific reason - Facets of Palestinian society focus on destroying Israel. The so called moderate Palestinian Authority under Abbas in the West Bank has a 'pay to slay' system that rewards the murder of Jews (the Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund pays out more than a billion/year to those that murder Jews). So yes, it is a fact that there is significant radicalization.

I do believe/know a significant number of Palestinians have been radicalized into believing the murder of Jews is the answer. Hamas was celebrated by civilians as Israeli bodies were dragged through the streets. I have been very clear that the answer will involve reeducation, including mandatory viewing of the terrible videos Hamas filmed during their disgusting attacks. October 7 needs to be looked at as a shameful period of their history with peace as the goal for both sides. I was certainly hoping this was a moment for Palestinians to take over from Hamas and make it clear they are no longer welcome. What we are seeing instead is great support from the civilians. You can see in this thread, no voice for peace from that side, just justification for October 7...they twist words and scream and shout and continue blaming Israel for Hamas raping and murdering.

Remember, this attack took place about 20 years after Israel gave control of Gaza to the Palestinians (despite what all the propagandists on this page states). During this time period, there have been non stop attacks against Israel, including thousands of rocket attacks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palest...acks_on_Israel). If you are aware of civilians holding Hamas responsible for their ongoing terrorism against Israel, please share.

If Palestinians desire more October 7 attacks and continued rocket attacks, then I certainly believe Israel needs to defend itself - they are completely surrounded by multiple factions that are no different than Hamas. That does not equate that we want people murdered, but it does mean that if war is the only option, then unfortunately that is the path required. Hamas built their military within their civilians and people in this thread justified that, think about that...

[Fuzz]

Killing civilians is not the only option.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Your exact words were "If your last paragraph is what you believe I see why you support the murder of Palestinian civilians". I don't believe he wants to see any innocent people murdered.

That belief is not dangerous, it is based on facts. For decades, multiple nations have radicalized their citizens, including those in Gaza. Much of the evidence regarding UNRWA has focused on educating Palestinians into believing they will eventually win and destroy Israel. I certainly don't want to see any violence, but that doesn't mean I am naive into believing Palestinians in general want to live in Peace with their Israeli neighbors. Israel has massive security for that specific reason - Facets of Palestinian society focus on destroying Israel. The so called moderate Palestinian Authority under Abbas in the West Bank has a 'pay to slay' system that rewards the murder of Jews (the Palestinian Authority Martyrs Fund pays out more than a billion/year to those that murder Jews). So yes, it is a fact that there is significant radicalization.

I do believe/know a significant number of Palestinians have been radicalized into believing the murder of Jews is the answer. Hamas was celebrated by civilians as Israeli bodies were dragged through the streets. I have been very clear that the answer will involve reeducation, including mandatory viewing of the terrible videos Hamas filmed during their disgusting attacks. October 7 needs to be looked at as a shameful period of their history with peace as the goal for both sides. I was certainly hoping this was a moment for Palestinians to take over from Hamas and make it clear they are no longer welcome. What we are seeing instead is great support from the civilians. You can see in this thread, no voice for peace from that side, just justification for October 7...they twist words and scream and shout and continue blaming Israel for Hamas raping and murdering.

Remember, this attack took place about 20 years after Israel gave control of Gaza to the Palestinians (despite what all the propagandists on this page states). During this time period, there have been non stop attacks against Israel, including thousands of rocket attacks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palest...acks_on_Israel). If you are aware of civilians holding Hamas responsible for their ongoing terrorism against Israel, please share.

If Palestinians desire more October 7 attacks and continued rocket attacks, then I certainly believe Israel needs to defend itself - they are completely surrounded by multiple factions that are no different than Hamas. That does not equate that we want people murdered, but it does mean that if war is the only option, then unfortunately that is the path required. Hamas built their military within their civilians and people in this thread justified that, think about that...

There is a big difference between a significant number as you said here and not qualifying it like the poster I responded to did.

Also I’m sorry if you object to calling the current Israeli actions as murdering innocent civilians. Simply stating what it is is not passing judgement on it. If you prefer we can call it having a very high threshold for the choice between 1 dead solider and x dead civilians. I don’t particularly care.

[ResAlien]

Dumb question but I think I’ve seen this called a war a few times but it feels very one sided, is this truly a “war”? Much like the American forever War on Terror where a flashpoint set off a campaign of eradication against a nebulous enemy and every action was justified as one of response this appears to be now be more of a campaign of elimination of the Palestinian people. Infrastructure, homes, refugee camps, etc all razed.

Are there unreported Hamas attacks that are continuing? I get the whole defending yourself angle but at some point you’re no longer defending yourself you’re the aggressor no?

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by blankall

The opinion polls from December of 2023, showed that 72% of Palestinians supported the attacks of Oct 7:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...%20no%20answer.

Meanwhile every time some extremist Israeli makes a hateful statement that gets reposted here. The idea that you can't cite Palestinians for hating Israelis is absurd.

Shocking that a population subjected to israeli brutality would be in favor of an attack on Israel.

Israel and Hamas are the same in every sense. Both terrorists that has support from their people.

The fact you can't see the hypocrisy of supporting a terrorist state while thinking Palestinians who support hamas are any different than you is hilarious.

At least a Palestinian has the excuse of seeing what Israel is doing to their people...what's your excuse?

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by blankall

The opinion polls from December of 2023, showed that 72% of Palestinians supported the attacks of Oct 7:

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle...%20no%20answer.

Meanwhile every time some extremist Israeli makes a hateful statement that gets reposted here. The idea that you can't cite Palestinians for hating Israelis is absurd.

And 73% Israelis support genocide.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...urvey-opinion/

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Dumb question but I think I’ve seen this called a war a few times but it feels very one sided, is this truly a “war”? Much like the American forever War on Terror where a flashpoint set off a campaign of eradication against a nebulous enemy and every action was justified as one of response this appears to be now be more of a campaign of elimination of the Palestinian people. Infrastructure, homes, refugee camps, etc all razed.

Are there unreported Hamas attacks that are continuing? I get the whole defending yourself angle but at some point you’re no longer defending yourself you’re the aggressor no?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/ar...iv-israel-gaza

Yeah, Hamas is still trying to launch rockets at Tel Aviv.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Killing civilians is not the only option.

Where the #### were you on October 6th?

[Southside403]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Where the #### were you on October 6th?

Watching the flames vs NYR we lost 4-5 OT

[Cube Inmate]

Originally Posted by ResAlien

Dumb question but I think I’ve seen this called a war a few times but it feels very one sided, is this truly a “war”? <snip>

If you're anything like me, you grew up reading about years-long, 20th Century wars between major powers and nation states. I've always felt it strange to call a conflict of only a few days (Six Days War), or maybe one between states and non-state groups (Mexican Drug War) a "war," but I guess if there's warfare, it's a War.

According to Wikipedia, the shortest war in history lasted something like 37 minutes.

[PepsiFree]

If only Fuzz could’ve personally convinced the terrorists not to harm civilians, this never would have happened.

[Looch City]

Lol is it wrong to hold Israel/IDF to a higher standard than Hamas terrorists on Oct 7th??

Or is the argument always like, they did this first so we can too!

Ridiculous. This conflict will never end.

[Skootenbeeten]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Killing civilians is not the only option.

Supporting Hamas is not the only option.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Looch City

Lol is it wrong to hold Israel/IDF to a higher standard than Hamas terrorists on Oct 7th??

Or is the argument always like, they did this first so we can too!

Ridiculous. This conflict will never end.

So what is the standard you hold Hamas to? Is parading multilated, naked bodies down Main Street the bar you gauge to?

Agree though, as long as that’s the way of thinking, this conflict will never end.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

If only Fuzz could’ve personally convinced the terrorists not to harm civilians, this never would have happened.

I knew you would be the first one in the que to defend Oct 7th attacks.

/g

[Skootenbeeten]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

I knew you would be the first one in the que to defend Oct 7th attacks.

/g

I heard an Israeli raised the rent on a house in the west bank, that's really all the justification you need.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

So what is the standard you hold Hamas to? Is parading multilated, naked bodies down Main Street the bar you gauge to?

Yes. A disgustingly low standard.
And the point being made is the IDF is not much different. They're at a similar level.

Nobody here has been defending Hamas’s actions though. Plenty been defending the IDF.

Do you agree they are similarly disgusting? Psychotic? Barbaric?

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Skootenbeeten

Supporting Hamas is not the only option.

Has anyone, anywhere ever suggested that? Ok, then lets move on from your made up ####.



You know civilians are being killed by Israel every single week, right? It could stop, today. Only one country on Earth has the power to do that, and they choose not to. I find that killing civilians is wrong, so to me it seems infinitely fair to criticize them for it, which I will continue to do until they stop. If you don't like it, you can, as they say, get bent.