Phaneuf,Sjostrom,Aulie traded to leafs for Hagman,Stajan,Mayers,White

[afc wimbledon]

Obviously if Phaneuf turns into the second coming of Brendan Shanahan it's a terrible trade, but a team can live and win without a league dominating defenseman far better than most other positions, a team can win with good overall defense rather than one great player assuming it can score up front.

[zamler]

Wow, epic thread, epic trade

I have not read the entire thread, but my first reaction is terrible trade, we got ripped off. I doubt my mind will be changed going forward, but we'll see. Even after thinking about it for a few hours, I still hate the deal.

[tendulkar23]

Is it just me or is there too much emphasis on the thought that every player should get along with each other and the coach in order to win a championship? If you look back on a lot of great dynasties in sports, you'll see that it is usually not the case. Michael Jordan didn't get along with any player on the Bulls teams with which he won 6 championships. He also hated the GM because he would constantly trade the guys Jordan wanted on the team and trade for players he didn't want. There's also Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'neal who won 3 consecutive titles while completely hating each other.

I'm just saying, it's not always necessary to have everyone hugging and kissing in the locker room. It's about how well the play together on the ice. Obviously if things go public and you have a couple players the just won't put up with each other anymore, it's different. i.e. Heatley/Spezza, O'neal/Bryant

I could care less if every Flame hated each other off the ice, as long as they had good chemistry on the ice. Clearly something wasn't working on the ice and some action had to be taken, I just hope it was the correct decision.

Anyways, my point is that we shouldn't trade based on the fact that Phaneuf wasn't invited to Regehr's dinner party and it seems like a lot of you think that we should.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Obviously if Phaneuf turns into the second coming of Brendan Shanahan it's a terrible trade, but a team can live and win without a league dominating defenseman far better than most other positions, a team can win with good overall defense rather than one great player assuming it can score up front.

I hope Phaneuf does turn into a star dman, however the Flames had to move a dman.. To many dollars tied up on the defense.

They need to add on the forward ranks.....

different topic

I am curious who is playing forward for the Leafs.. dang 4 forwards gone and 1 in. Bruins must be extremely excited with todays deals,

[Reign of Fire]

Everybody keeps thinking White is better than Phaneuf cause he HAS more points than Phaneuf...if thats gonna help ppl sleep at night well then good for you but White is not even in the same ball park when it comes to potential of a Dion Phaneuf

[FanIn80]

Hagman-Jokinen-Iginla
Lundmark-Stajan-Bourque
Glencross-Langkow-Nystrom
Prust-Mayers-McGrattan

Bouwmeester-Regehr
Giordano-White
Johnson-Pardy

Gone: Boyd
Gone: Sarich
Gone: Moss

Box: Conroy

[Hack&Lube]

As I posted in the other thread, the capspace is hardly anything at all. I would like McKenzie to explain the $4M in space unless he is referring to Dion being salary locked in and Stajan, White, Mayers, etc. being salary that is not locked in, rendering the trade Dion for Hagman?

Okay, out goes:
Phaneuf ($6.5M)
Sjostrom ($0.75M)
Total: $7.25M

In comes:
Hagman ($3.0M)
Stajan ($1.75M)
Mayers ($1.33M)
White ($0.85)
Total: $6.93M

Difference: $320,000

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope

I'm not sure where everyone is seeing all this supposed cap space...?

Hagman makes 3 mil for a few more seasons...

So with just Hagman you're saving $3.5 mil.

White needs to be re-signed as an RFA and with his numbers is probobly around $2 - $3 ish mil/year...

If you re-sign Stajan who will be around $3 mil you're actually spending more than Phanuef by about $2 mil or so...

Or you are dropping 1 or 2 of these guys with marginal extra cap space...

?

Did I miss something?

edit: Yikes.. looks like I didn't have the right numbers. I'd heard 4mm earlier today.. hmmm.. that does change things, if true.

[Mccree]

Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope

I'm not sure where everyone is seeing all this supposed cap space...?

Hagman makes 3 mil for a few more seasons...

So with just Hagman you're saving $3.5 mil.

White needs to be re-signed as an RFA and with his numbers is probobly around $2 - $3 ish mil/year...

If you re-sign Stajan who will be around $3 mil you're actually spending more than Phanuef by about $2 mil or so...

Or you are dropping 1 or 2 of these guys with marginal extra cap space...

?

Did I miss something?

I think the key is that you spread the money around.

Sure you spent 2 mill more (in your example) but you added (hopefully) 2 top six forwards and 1 top 4 d man (hopefully) for only 2 mill extra.

Instead you have 1 top 4 d man and no other players. That is the gamble IMO!

[Sly]

Originally Posted by FanIn80

Jokinen-Stajan-Iginla
Hagman-Langkow-Lundmark
Glencross-Conroy-Nystrom
Prust-Mayers-McGrattan

Bouwmeester-Regehr
Giordano-White
Johnson-Pardy

Gone: Boyd
Gone: Sarich
Gone: Moss

Bork Bork?

[CaptainCrunch]

You can't put Gio with White, they'll get crushed.

Put Regehr with Gio and Bow with White.

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

As I posted in the other thread, the capspace is hardly anything at all. I would like McKenzie to explain the $4M in space unless he is referring to Dion being salary locked in and Stajan, White, Mayers, etc. being salary that is not locked in, rendering the trade Dion for Hagman?

Okay, out goes:
Phaneuf ($6.5M)
Sjostrom ($0.75M)
Total: $7.25M

In comes:
Hagman ($3.0M)
Stajan ($1.75M)
Mayers ($1.33M)
White ($0.85)
Total: $6.93M

Difference: $320,000

McKenzie is refering to next year. Only Hagman is signed next year so the Flames will gain 4.25M in cap space in 10/11

[Bunk]

Actually, I think chemistry, fit, drive and grit are really important factors in winning. Afterall, the flames went to game 7 of the cup finals with Sean Donovan as the team's second leading scorer. Despite the lack of talent, that group of pluggers gelled incredibly well as a team. Who would have known that a mid season acquisition like Ville Nieminen and Marcus Nilson would have been such key pieces of the puzzle back in 2004?

I'm not sure Hagman, Stajan and White are the answer, or even if Phaneuf was the problem, but clearly something needed to be done to shake things up. I also think another trade will come.

[FBI]

Oh GOD now I have to watch Leafs games to follow Phaneuf and see how he does..

That has to be the worst part of this trade.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

As I posted in the other thread, the capspace is hardly anything at all. I would like McKenzie to explain the $4M in space unless he is referring to Dion being salary locked in and Stajan, White, Mayers, etc. being salary that is not locked in, rendering the trade Dion for Hagman?

Okay, out goes:
Phaneuf ($6.5M)
Sjostrom ($0.75M)
Total: $7.25M

In comes:
Hagman ($3.0M)
Stajan ($1.75M)
Mayers ($1.33M)
White ($0.85)
Total: $6.93M

Difference: $320,000

I believe he is talking about next year (i.e Mayers is a UFA and Stajan is a UFA).

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by flambers

That's assuming they sign one, they may trade for one..... Having Cap space is HUGE. There is always teams that need to shed contracts IMO

As for Phaneuf for a young forward with top 6 potential... He traded Phaneuf for 2 top 6 forwards and 1 top 4 dman.

Plus it gave the Flames cap room....

If you listen, Stajan is an ideal 3rd line centre(according to Leaf fans) and Hagman is streaky.

[LickTheEnvelope]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Yes, you did. Phaneuf's 6.5 was locked in for a few seasons as well. But beyond that, I'm not sure why you would analyze cap space by throwing in assumptions about what people are going to sign for in the future when you really have no idea.

Today, we free'd up $4MM to spend for this season. That's huge. Let the offseason sort itself out.

????

Which season by "this season" are you reffering to?

This seasons cap hits:

Phanuef: $6.5 mil
Sjostrom: $0.75 mil

= $7.25 mil

Hagman: $3 mil
Stajan: $1.75 mil
Mayers: $1.333 mil
White: $0.85 mil

= $6.933 mil

Calgary saves about $300k...

EDIT:

And the assumptions on Stajan and White I made for around $3 and around $2.5 mil are very reasonable based on their production the last 2 seasons...

[FanIn80]

Originally Posted by Sly

Bork Bork?

Thanks, I knew I was forgetting someone.

Hagman-Jokinen-Iginla
Dawes-Stajan-Bourque
Glencross-Langkow-Nystrom
Prust-Mayers-McGrattan
Lundmark

Bouwmeester-Giordano
Regehr-White
Johnson-Pardy

Gone: Boyd
Gone: Sarich
Gone: Moss

IR/Depth: Conroy

Edit: Truth be told, I'd rather have Moss than Mayers... I just don't know where he'd fit in.
Also, if we can unload Sarich for a pick and let Jokinen walk in July, that leaves us with some bucks on the table to chase down Marleau.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by bugsy

And i think that is hugely telling. Good on ya Robyn, time to dust off your boots now and get to work. Still say good, and ultimately, necessary, trade.

Yes what a good leader Robyn is, not getting on with a much younger player and having his on ice play effected by it, so much so that players potential has to be traded away so the team can get back on track.
That's not the sign of quality to me. Enjoy your NM clause Regehr and sitting pretty, you better get your head out of your ass now!

[Methanolic]

I think we did good today.

Dions impact will be short lived in T.O. IMHO.

Calgary will come out as the winner re: todays trade.