The Blue Jays Thread.

[flames_1987]

JP has done a horrible jay adressing the catchers position the last few years. Thank god Zaun was still there when JP had nothing else to go for. As bad as Phillips is, he's nowhere near Sal Fasano bad.

Marcum is pitching one hell of a gutsy game tonight, the Jays need to at least give hims some support, because eventually the Yankees bats are going to do something

[flames_1987]

my god this is tough to watch. Overbays got a tough matchup against Myers, hopefully he can come through.

Well..another year, another end to the season in the Bronx with a disgusting effort by the Jays. At least Rios showed up

[metallicat]

I can't believe the Yankess don't have a better record than they do. They are coming on, are the Red Sox getting nervous?

[corporatejay]

The Blue Jays pen is like a gigantic gas can, if the jays lose won't that be 3 blown saves in a row?

[flames_1987]

The 1st game of the series was not a blown save, Towers lost it strait up. Tonight Marcum gets the loss because he allowed those two runs. I also have a hard time even thinking about the pen when the offense is that freaking horrible

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

The 1st game of the series was not a blown save, Towers lost it strait up. Tonight Marcum gets the loss because he allowed those two runs. I also have a hard time even thinking about the pen when the offense is that freaking horrible

That's just it right now its not the arms letting the team down is the complete absence of ANY timely hitting. And you can't win consistently w/o that.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Tough team to watch. Pretty sad when they have 2 on and none out with Wells, Glaus and Thomas up and get nothing. Pathetic.

Wells..........not sure what to say about the guy. His confidence looks absolutely shot at the plate right now.

[KTown]

Gibbons needs to go, and he needs to go tomorrow. The guy can't even motivate this team. If it wasn't for there pitching (other than towers) this team would be fighting with the D-Rays for the bottom.

[habernac]

I have a hard time blaming the manager. Is he supposed to go up there and take their at-bats for them? These guys are pros, they get paid well. they shouldn't need a coach to motivate them. The bats are failing this team, plain and simple. I have quietly backed Wells but I'm now in the camp of "we paid the wrong guy $17 million to play in the outfield". Rios has been fantastic, too bad it hasn't rubbed off on VW.

[Sylvanfan]

I think they need to take a hard look at J.P. and Gibbons. Both are on what now their third season for Gibbons, and like 5 or 6 for JP and there has been zero progress with the team despite the fact that they continue to spend more. Yes the team has had injuries, but at some point if the result is constant mediocrity they have to address it.

Certainly hindsight is a powerful tool, but given how shallow the Jays prospect base is they probably should have traded Wells for some prospects and than looked to sign another guy who can hit and play in one of the corner outfield positions. Between the money that was spent on Wells, Thomas, and Burnett, and Ryan sitting on the shelf what is that like 45 million doing next to nothing.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by habernac

I have a hard time blaming the manager. Is he supposed to go up there and take their at-bats for them? These guys are pros, they get paid well. they shouldn't need a coach to motivate them. The bats are failing this team, plain and simple. I have quietly backed Wells but I'm now in the camp of "we paid the wrong guy $17 million to play in the outfield". Rios has been fantastic, too bad it hasn't rubbed off on VW.

Rios is proving now he is a better hitter than Wells is, he can play CF, and has a much better arm (and comparably range too). He is already the best LF in the game according to defensive stats, which is definitely believable.

I'm really worried about this when Contract time comes around: "So, JP, where is my 17 million then?"

Is it motivation though? Or is it simply a case of misjudging the potential of certain players? I don't mean to pick on Wells again, but when he was struggling horribly to begin the season 2 years ago, (both him and Lilly), both were asked what they needed to do to get back on track. I'm paraphrasing from their exact quotes, but Lilly, at least was saying the right things about going back and looking at film, tweaking issues with his mechanics and really making some adjustments. Wells on the other hand, replied with "I'm not really sure what is wrong, balls aren't falling". To the same extent me made the same quote this year, when he had the abboration 4/5 game or whatever a month or so ago, where he said he had no idea why he struggled before - but hopes hes back on track now.

Anyways, you can draw your own conclusions to the dedication these guys seem to show, but if there is a problem, you should be in the video room looking at film, and in Vernon's case, the problem is obvious - don't swing at letter high garbage every single AB and get an infield popout.

Given Wells consistancy/track record, it wasn't a good idea to give him the money. I've said that before. But I really do hope he improves - I don't want the Jays Payroll to be crippled with an uncompetitive, overpaid team, with a giant albatross in CF.

[habernac]

of course, during a game I can't watch, the Jays rally in the 7th and beat the ba$tards.

[flames_1987]

Originally Posted by habernac

of course, during a game I can't watch, the Jays rally in the 7th and beat the ba$tards.

Just what I was gonna say! Watch every game of the series except for this one and low and behold the Jays actually win one.

The Jays got 3 quality starts to say the least in the Bronx and could only manage to squeek out one win.

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

JP has done a horrible jay adressing the catchers position the last few years. Thank god Zaun was still there when JP had nothing else to go for. As bad as Phillips is, he's nowhere near Sal Fasano bad.

i'd take fasano over both, he can throw people out. 27 consecutive steals vs the jays and primarily zaun. brutal.

[flames_1987]

As horrible as there defense has been, Fasano's 1.78 BAA is god awful. Fasano blows, and it's sad that he's JP's only other option behind the plate. It's just one of many problems with this team right now

[ricoFlame]

ted lilly is 10-4. granted, it's against national league lineups, but still, pretty steady stuff there.

[KTown]

Originally Posted by ricoFlame

ted lilly is 10-4. granted, it's against national league lineups, but still, pretty steady stuff there.

I really wished the Jays signed him. He's a battler and we would have had some great pitching with him in the lineup. He ended last year hot and he's pitching well again this year.

[Sylvanfan]

I'd argue that it's actually tougher to win in the NL since your matrix of competition is tougher since NL teams seem to fair poorly vs. the AL teams in interleague play. His ERA is what would benefit the most from pitching in that league. Either way it was pretty obvious that Lilly and Jays coaches didn't exactly see eye to eye and that there was some friction there. J.P. should have traded him for a prospect or two at the last trade deadline because anyone could see that he wanted to leave Toronto.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I'd argue that it's actually tougher to win in the NL since your matrix of competition is tougher since NL teams seem to fair poorly vs. the AL teams in interleague play. His ERA is what would benefit the most from pitching in that league. Either way it was pretty obvious that Lilly and Jays coaches didn't exactly see eye to eye and that there was some friction there. J.P. should have traded him for a prospect or two at the last trade deadline because anyone could see that he wanted to leave Toronto.

How do you figure that?

Less talented teams in the NL for sure - making it easier for you to win if you're a talented player/team. Interleague is such a small part of the game... it really is pretty insignificant in the grand scheme. Lilly will make what? 3/4 of his 32-35 starts vs. the AL?

But I agree with your second point about letting talent fall by the wayside to free agency for nothing. Long list of those names on JP's tenure.

[Sylvanfan]

Well it's probably easier to win as a pitcher in the NL Central than it is as a pitcher in the AL East given that you won't be playing the Yankees and Red Sox a lot. But if the NL indeed has worse teams....you probably have worse players playing behind you than you would in the AL wouldn't you? Plus NL pitchers can be taken out of close games earlier for pinch hitters in like the 6th inning whereas in the AL they might get a chance to throw 7 innings even if they give up 5 runs. Mind you it's all pretty much moot...Lilly is having a good year and was a decent pitcher and I don't think he'd be 10-4 with the Blue Jays if he was playing for them and pitching like he has this year. Although Halladay still has a good record despite how poorly he's pitched at times.

The more I think about J.P. the more I think they have to axe him and Gibbons at year end and bring in a GM who can get some type of farm system in place. The Jays aren't exactly a poor team and if they could set up a model like the Atlanta Braves they might do okay given that they do have the ability to keep a few players. Instead he seems to try running them like the Leafs lately paying big money for free agents who never seem to produce consistantly, let alone justify the cost.