Edmonton is No Good VI: Chia•den•freu•de

[Enoch Root]

how is his bonus giving others leverage?

it's a sunk cost, and isn't enough to deter the owners from trying to get more in subsequent negotiations

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

how is his bonus giving others leverage?

it's a sunk cost, and isn't enough to deter the owners from trying to get more in subsequent negotiations

The more it costs owners to lock the players out, the less incentive they have to do so.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

how is his bonus giving others leverage?

it's a sunk cost, and isn't enough to deter the owners from trying to get more in subsequent negotiations

Because the oilers(and any other team that has negotiated these types of bonuses for that season) would probably prefer to make money off of the money they are paying those players rather than pay them to sit at home. To my knowledge these types of deals weren’t really a factor in the last two disputes, if the games weren’t played the players got nothing. Now the league has to pay some players regardless of whether or not the league is able to generate a return from it that year, this gives them more incentive to get a deal done.

[goflamesgo18]

Ty Rattie and Poolparty are on contract years.

Ty Rattie is so overrated by their fanbase and management and will prob put up 50+ pts playing with McDavid, then will demand at least 6M long term

Poolparty will probably play 2nd line with Draisaitl and put up 35+ pts, then demand at least 5M long term (being 4th overall pick and all)

The only other meaningful contract coming off the books is Talbot. And if he plays anything like he did 2 years ago, he will demand at least 7M long term.

Oilers cannot afford to trade any of their D to create more cap space. And none of their forwards outside of McDavid or Draisaitl hold any value.

E=NG

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Here is an article I found with possible tweaks to escrow that may be coming:
https://www.nhlnumbers.com/2016/8/12...ern-in-the-nhl

The relevant excerpt:

I suspect the 2019 CBA will seek to reduce or eliminate the cap escalator. The cap escalator creates an artificial increase to the salary cap limits without actually backing it up with increase HRR. This encourages salary inflation, especially as more and more teams are spending above the midpoint. And ultimately, this inflation only benefits players signing onto new deals while simultaneously reducing the effective salaries of everyone else in the league already under contract. Every year, the NHLPA should be about 80% against the cap escalator if they decide to vote out of personal benefit.

Lastly, I expect the salary cap limits calculations to change. If the league reduces the amount that the ceiling is over the current “Midpoint of the Salary Cap Range”, then escrow will be reduced and salaries on new contracts will be in line with a lower escrow world. I would personally maintain the relative size of the range, which would mean the Midpoint would instead become a “Set Point.” I figure making the limits 80% and 110% of the Set Point would be a step in the right direction. That change would likely drop escrow down by about a third.

So the players are upset that they're putting too much money into escrow, despite the fact that at the end of the fiscal year they get what supposed to?

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

The cap escalator creates an artificial increase to the salary cap limits without actually backing it up with increase HRR.

This is incorrect. The cap escalator is tied directly to HRR.

The escalator isn't the problem. In fact, the escalator is one of the few parts of the CBA that actually works the way it's supposed to.

If they eliminated the escalator (as they did this summer when setting this season's salary range), it would help mask some of the issues (for one season only), but it won't fix the fundamental flaw of the salary cap structure in the NHL. That flaw is that the whole system was set up on an incorrect assumption.

The assumption on which the whole system is set up is that team payrolls would be relatively evenly distributed between the floor and the cap, with the majority of teams operating close to the midpoint of the range, with very few teams being close to either end. In reality, every season, the majority of teams end up clustered near the top of the salary range. In fact, we usually see more teams over the cap at the end of the season (after LTIR and bonuses are taken into account) than we see teams under the midpoint of the range.


Look at last season's numbers: https://www.capfriendly.com/archive

5 teams had final cap payrolls over $75 million. Only 2 teams had final cap payrolls below the midpoint of $65.2 million. The lowest payroll in the league was Arizona and they were $3.4 million above the floor. 19 teams had less than $3.4 million in cap space at the end of the season.


Until that structure is fixed, the system will remain broken and the players will be stuck paying large amounts into escrow.


If you remove the escalator, you mask the problem one time, and only one time. Right now, the cap and floor are calculated using the projected revenue for the upcoming season, which is calculated by taking the previous season's actual revenue and applying a 5% escalator. If you eliminate that escalator, you remove that 5% from the equation one time. The fundamental flaw in the system that is there with the 5% escalator will still be there without it.




----------

Sorry for going off-topic. E=NG forever.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

The more it costs owners to lock the players out, the less incentive they have to do so.

As I stated in the post you quoted, it is a sunk cost which they would already have accounted for.

More importantly though, the owners are looking to improve the entire deal, which is worth a hell of a lot more money than those bonuses. Last lockout, they moved from what was it, 57% of HRR for the players to 50%? That was worth about $200M PER YEAR to the owners.

[JetsFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

It's true. Just take a look at other leagues.

NFL doesn't even have a max salary. There is a guy making $37 million per season.

NBA has a max salary of 35% of the cap. The cap is set at $102 million.

There are like seven guys that are getting paid more than the cap max somehow.

MLB guys get astronomical numbers.

NHL has the highest minimum wage and the gap between the highest and lowest salaries is the smallest by far.

Their mean salary is trailing only basketball.

Hockey stars are definitely the least selfish out of the major sports. I don't see there being any debate here.

How does mean salary contribute to your point, exactly?

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by JetsFlamesFan

How does mean salary contribute to your point, exactly?

Oops. I meant to write median.

MLB has higher average salaries but it's because it is so skewed to the upper end.

NHL salaries are much more evenly distributed

NHL "regular joes" are earning closer to the top of the salary range in the NHL than they do in MLB or NFL.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

As I stated in the post you quoted, it is a sunk cost which they would already have accounted for.

More importantly though, the owners are looking to improve the entire deal, which is worth a hell of a lot more money than those bonuses. Last lockout, they moved from what was it, 57% of HRR for the players to 50%? That was worth about $200M PER YEAR to the owners.

Yeah, but this lockout the sunk cost is going to be exponentially higher than in the past. You look at guys like McDavid, Tavares, Price, Doughty, Kucherov, Stamkos, etc. Most of the new big contracts are getting paid mostly in signing bonuses.

Between just the last 15ish big contracts signed, NHL owners will be on the hook for $100 million dollars whether the games are played or not. That's not taking into account all the other bonus laden contracts either.

And while the owners are always looking to improve the entire deal, they are working with diminishing returns. The owners always have the upper hand, but eventually they will hit a point where it no longer makes sense to attempt to squeeze the players for more.

They are by all accounts happy with the current deal, so its likely we are pretty close to being there already.

[Enoch Root]

and what they gained last lockout was worth over $1B

as for the owners being happy with the current deal, that is a different argument

[TheCommodoreAfro]

Edmonton is no good.

[stang]

Lockouts are no good

[FBI]

I'm getting triggered reading the words HRR and CBA and escalator again.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

and what they gained last lockout was worth over $1B

as for the owners being happy with the current deal, that is a different argument

Ok. You win.

The players having millions more owed to them this time around doesn't put them in a better bargaining position compared to the last lockout.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Ok. You win.

The players having millions more owed to them this time around doesn't put them in a better bargaining position compared to the last lockout.

Ok you win, it does.

Having to pay the players millions will deter the owners from fighting for billions.

[JetsFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Oops. I meant to write median.

MLB has higher average salaries but it's because it is so skewed to the upper end.

NHL salaries are much more evenly distributed

NHL "regular joes" are earning closer to the top of the salary range in the NHL than they do in MLB or NFL.

Thought that might have been a typo. Thanks for clarifying that.

[JetsFlamesFan]

Getting back on topic, shots 19-8 Oilers, score is 2-2

e=ng

[OldSam]

Now 3 - 2 jets. Most excellent greaser defence leads to a jets shorthanded goal.

[Enoch Root]

Bear looked completely disinterested defensively on that 3rd goal.