[Rumour] NJD willing to trade for Markstrom in offseason if deal not reached before deadline

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Icon

While some of your points aren't way off... Wolf has literally nothing left to prove in the AHL.

Sorry, it was a sarcastic remark. It doesn't come across well in written form.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Because winning creates chemistry, not the other way around. If you grab your 20 best friends and create an NHL team, you're going to have wonderful chemistry and a bad team. All those scoundrels in the Oilers locker room are having a grand old time right now because they're winning, not because they're nice folks.

What's the need to have decent goaltending? Just go get Mrazek or someone. Chicago isn't getting blown out every night. There are no reins to grab if you aren't even on the team. Maybe Wolf needs to prove himself in the AHL, I guess. It would be too risky to not have Markstrom around leading us to 17th place in the NHL.

Mrazek?

They love him in Chicago, he’s played great and just signed a 3 year extension.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Because winning creates chemistry, not the other way around. If you grab your 20 best friends and create an NHL team, you're going to have wonderful chemistry and a bad team. All those scoundrels in the Oilers locker room are having a grand old time right now because they're winning, not because they're nice folks.

What's the need to have decent goaltending? Just go get Mrazek or someone. Chicago isn't getting blown out every night. There are no reins to grab if you aren't even on the team. Maybe Wolf needs to prove himself in the AHL, I guess. It would be too risky to not have Markstrom around leading us to 17th place in the NHL.

Nah, chemistry creates winning. No one is talking about just having best buds on the team. It's about creating a winning, professional atmosphere, with leadership who wants to and knows how to win.

And just wait until the Oilers are faced with adversity and see how well they do without real leadership in the room.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Mrazek?

They love him in Chicago, he’s played great and just signed a 3 year extension.

2-year, but yeah. Just an example. Sometimes they roll out an AHL lineup and they are not getting "blown out every night". Toronto gave Chicago a better pick to get rid of him.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Nah, chemistry creates winning. No one is talking about just having best buds on the team. It's about creating a winning, professional atmosphere, with leadership who wants to and knows how to win.

And just wait until the Oilers are faced with adversity and see how well they do without real leadership in the room.

Lol. Like how we had to get rid of Sutter to make players happy and start winning, I guess.

It is a problem for the Oilers because they are making the playoffs. We are 7 points out, so we need leadership to be 17th?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Lol. Like how we had to get rid of Sutter to make players happy and start winning, I guess.

It is a problem for the Oilers because they are making the playoffs. We are 7 points out, so we need leadership to be 17th?

You are mistaking what good chemistry and leadership is. It's not buddy buddy stuff. Iginla wasn't a good time Charlie in the room.

They need leadership to help the younger players develop. They need guys with lesser attitudes out.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Lol. Like how we had to get rid of Sutter to make players happy and start winning, I guess.

It is a problem for the Oilers because they are making the playoffs. We are 7 points out, so we need leadership to be 17th?

Nobody is saying we need leadership to be 17th.

You’re playing dumb and acting like you don’t understand the concept of leadership or team chemistry, so people are trying to explain that concept to you in general instead of justifying keeping Markstrom solely on the basis of him being a leader in the room (which is what you obviously want to argue against).

You’re free to argue that, but if you don’t want people to just explain to you that teams actually need leadership and that chemistry is important, don’t pretend you don’t understand those concepts. With the amount of parity that exists around the league, those are the kind of things that decide which teams make the finals and which teams go out in the first round. If those things never mattered, the top teams would always win, every time.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

What does Seravalli know? He is an east coast guy playing messenger for an east coast team.
Being upset by that rumour is carrying water for the Devils.

He might not know much but pretty safe to say he knows more than anyone here.

[Goriders]

The NJ GM seems like an idiot. Likes to negotiate through the media.

Acts like he’s in grade 8 check to see if Cindy Lou is interested via her friends.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hackey

He might not know much but pretty safe to say he knows more than anyone here.

That's not safe to say at all.

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Vanecek is good tandem goalie, he isn't just a cap dump. He is having a poor season. Markstrom had a poor season last year, now he may fetch a 1st and good prospect.

52 games last season .911 save % and .908 the years prior with 42 and 37 games played.

He may even be someone we could extend if he is decent enough.

I agree. It wouldn’t be the end of the world if we got this guy.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Vanecek is good tandem goalie, he isn't just a cap dump. He is having a poor season. Markstrom had a poor season last year, now he may fetch a 1st and good prospect.

52 games last season .911 save % and .908 the years prior with 42 and 37 games played.

He may even be someone we could extend if he is decent enough.

Originally Posted by Sandman

I agree. It wouldn’t be the end of the world if we got this guy.

Yeah, he's $3.4M which is a lot but roughly equivalent to a 50% retention. If he has a bounceback year, he's a rental asset next year.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Nobody is saying we need leadership to be 17th.

You’re playing dumb and acting like you don’t understand the concept of leadership or team chemistry, so people are trying to explain that concept to you in general instead of justifying keeping Markstrom solely on the basis of him being a leader in the room (which is what you obviously want to argue against).

You’re free to argue that, but if you don’t want people to just explain to you that teams actually need leadership and that chemistry is important, don’t pretend you don’t understand those concepts. With the amount of parity that exists around the league, those are the kind of things that decide which teams make the finals and which teams go out in the first round. If those things never mattered, the top teams would always win, every time.

I know what they are, there is simply no empirical evidence that they matter. You're crediting leadership and chemistry for what is actually caused by random variation.

Whenever a 46% team defeats a 54% team in one particular instance or series, people who subscribe to that canard will credit chemistry and completely discount how often it will happen based on true talent alone.

If any of this had an evidentiary basis, you'd be able to quantify chemistry and tell us who is going to the finals this year.

[dammage79]

I'm at a point now where I don't see Markstrom traded. The idea makes a ton of sense but it just looks like it's too big of a scene to make happen.

I want them to trade him before the deadline.

I understand they don't have to or need to unless the trade is a win for them.

Anything they can get is a win IMO for a 34 year old goalie with a 6m cap hit for 2 more full seasons and retention for 2 full years SHOULD cost a pinky toe at least.

All in all, things don't look to be in the cards.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by butterfly

I know what they are, there is simply no empirical evidence that they matter. You're crediting leadership and chemistry for what is actually caused by random variation.

Whenever a 46% team defeats a 54% team in one particular instance or series, people who subscribe to that canard will credit chemistry and completely discount how often it will happen based on true talent alone.

If any of this had an evidentiary basis, you'd be able to quantify chemistry and tell us who is going to the finals this year.

Take it up with the winningest coaches of all time and MIT fellows calling it the “holy grail” of analytics, and actual players who play the game who say it matters. I’m sure researchers spending countless hours trying to quantify so it can be applied to things like team building are just doing it for a laugh.

I’m sure your argument that they don’t matter because it’s all random and vague allusions to “true talent” which is even less evidence-based than the psychological impacts of leadership and good relationships will be really compelling.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Take it up with the winningest coaches of all time and MIT fellows calling it the “holy grail” of analytics, and actual players who play the game who say it matters. I’m sure researchers spending countless hours trying to quantify so it can be applied to things like team building are just doing it for a laugh.

I’m sure your argument that they don’t matter because it’s all random and vague allusions to “true talent” which is even less evidence-based than the psychological impacts of leadership and good relationships will be really compelling.

I’d love to read the work of these MIT fellows. Can you help me out with a link?

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Wow. Both of these teams realize they're 7-8 points out of a playoff position right? That's teetering near the edge of impossible with the amount of runway left.

And yet they're dragging their feet on Markstrom and Mercer and talking about playoffs still.

Usually only the oilers succumb to this level of delusion publicly.

I think the Flames just got cold feet (could see it) and the package was reasonable. But they can hold out cause I don't think any other team can offer a better young center.

New Jersey and Calgary are different.

Jersey is trying to avoid a lost season in a window of contention, so they're hanging on to some sketchy hope because their biggest problem is solvable with a trade.

In Calgary I doubt very much that of the 5 guys in the management group, not one has the ability to do the math or look it up on line (playoff chance models). They know they're not making the playoffs. But they put value on culture and not tanking, and respecting the dressing room (setting a high bar for a player that is huge to the team and has term).

It's a lot easier to defend moving expiring contracts to guys skating through a wall for you then a trade like Markstrom.

We can all agree or disagree on that notion, but they seem to believe in it .. at least to some degree. They have moved 4 UFAs and are about to move the 5th. They get it. They just don't lean into said knowledge in the public (media).

[browna]

^
And for all we know the NJ Markstrom inquiry was one of many that the Flames get regularly about lots of players, and all teams do to a degree, with tire kickers. Conroy politely turned it down.

Difference is, that one got out when it shouldn't have, and kept legs (the part that Markstrom became upset about) when it should've been quashed. NJ continuing to flail in net and impatient fans and media types also did their part in keeping the rumor alive.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Goriders

The NJ GM seems like an idiot. Likes to negotiate through the media.

Acts like he’s in grade 8 check to see if Cindy Lou is interested via her friends.

And when he finds out she is, he rubs one off in the bathroom instead of asking her out.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Not sure if this has been posted already but just watched it. Seravalli says ownership/upper management killed the deal.

https://youtu.be/jnI1zcyYn5c?si=GUGQzUBOBrb3fhvJ

I can report this is 100% false from multiple sources.