Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Geraldsh

I heard a ucp supporter say he would never/ever vote ndp because the rcmp confiscated guns during the high river flood - how you gonna argue with that?

Man, those are the tough nuts to crack. How can you apply logic to someone that clearly chooses to just go without it?

RCMP breaking into peoples houses and stealing firearms was indeed disgusting but I'm struggling to see what that has to do with the ANDP

[Reggie Dunlop]

Turkish Tylenol is 75% strength and twice the price!

Or is Danielle going to tell us that if you water it down by 100 parts, it's twice as effective?

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by timun

^^^Exactly! I've heard this common refrain that the NDP somehow ####ed rural Albertans over and I have never, ever read or heard an actual explanation as to how.

Not that I don't believe a lot of rural voters believe that the NDP ####ed them—I've written multiple times in this thread that I think pretty much every rural riding in the province is the UCP's to lose because the voter base is so vehemently against the NDP—but not one rural voter has ever articulated in precisely what way they got ####ed by the NDP government.

I think a lot rural farming people and those connected to those communities felt it was a significant overreach of government in their day to day lives and how they run their farm/business. The NDP has indicated that a lot of those policies were not the most thought-out from a pragmatic perspective but the intension was overall good.

The truth lied somewhere in the middle most likely, some improvements may have been needed but a lot of the rules regarding overtime compensation, equipment, licensing etc were overdone.

Rural people are not going to take lightly to some policy wonk in any political party preaching safety from the safety of their laptop/office.

Being told that their 15 year old kid or nephew needs licensing to ride a tractor or an ATV or operate another piece of equipment doesn't bode well.

[Izzle]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I think a lot rural farming people and those connected to those communities felt it was a significant overreach of government in their day to day lives and how they run their farm/business. The NDP has indicated that a lot of those policies were not the most thought-out from a pragmatic perspective but the intension was overall good.



The truth lied somewhere in the middle most likely, some improvements may have been needed but a lot of the rules regarding overtime compensation, equipment, licensing etc were overdone.



Rural people are not going to take lightly to some policy wonk in any political party preaching safety from the safety of their laptop/office.



Being told that their 15 year old kid or nephew needs licensing to ride a tractor or an ATV or operate another piece of equipment doesn't bode well.

I'm sorry. But this all reads like a tantrum. The same rural folk that won't hesitate to call a city slicker "snowflake"

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Izzle

I'm sorry. But this all reads like a tantrum. The same rural folk that won't hesitate to call a city slicker "snowflake"

It's also got some incorrect info. Licensing was never part of it, and it doesn't apply to family either, just workers

The UCP reversing parts of it is stupid too. If a farm employs les than 6 people then WCB is optional? What a joke

[Faust]

Take Back Alberta was trending on social media today



The Breakdown @TheBreakdownAB

New episode!

Take Back Alberta continues to roll over the province, but should anyone be concerned when one of their key figures has an alleged history of financial manipulation and wrongdoing?

#abpoli #ableg #cdnpoli

https://twitter.com/thebreakdownab/s...814638080?s=21

[Faust]

Take Back Alberta, far right radical group, continues its effort to take over UCP:

https://albertapolitics.ca/2023/03/t...take-over-ucp/

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by curves2000

I think a lot rural farming people and those connected to those communities felt it was a significant overreach of government in their day to day lives and how they run their farm/business. The NDP has indicated that a lot of those policies were not the most thought-out from a pragmatic perspective but the intension was overall good.

They adjusted their policy around WCB but I don’t recall them stating that the policies weren’t thought out or pragmatic. The fact that they adjusted their stance makes your argument of a lack of pragmatism kinda moot.

The truth lied somewhere in the middle most likely, some improvements may have been needed but a lot of the rules regarding overtime compensation, equipment, licensing etc were overdone.

You’re switching gears here considering we’re talking about the farming rules which apparently were an affront to farmers. While I agree that the overtime changes while well meaning were overly complicated, I’m not sure I understand where you’re coming from regarding licensing.

Rural people are not going to take lightly to some policy wonk in any political party preaching safety from the safety of their laptop/office.

Quite the generalization there. Do you think they’re happy with the current annual average workplace deaths on farms?

Being told that their 15 year old kid or nephew needs licensing to ride a tractor or an ATV or operate another piece of equipment doesn't bode well.

I’m just gonna leave these here and give you an opportunity to reconsider that position:

Farm accident kills boy, 10, while driving forklift

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...lift-1.3330376

Funeral held for 3 Alberta sisters smothered by canola seed

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...seed-1.3286077

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Izzle

I'm sorry. But this all reads like a tantrum. The same rural folk that won't hesitate to call a city slicker "snowflake"

And the same folk that don't want any government intervention until their crop insurance premiums go up or they have a crop failure and demand a subsidy.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

They adjusted their policy around WCB but I don’t recall them stating that the policies weren’t thought out or pragmatic. The fact that they adjusted their stance makes your argument of a lack of pragmatism kinda moot.



You’re switching gears here considering we’re talking about the farming rules which apparently were an affront to farmers. While I agree that the overtime changes while well meaning were overly complicated, I’m not sure I understand where you’re coming from regarding licensing.



Quite the generalization there. Do you think they’re happy with the current annual average workplace deaths on farms?



I’m just gonna leave these here and give you an opportunity to reconsider that position:

Farm accident kills boy, 10, while driving forklift

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...lift-1.3330376

Funeral held for 3 Alberta sisters smothered by canola seed

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...seed-1.3286077

RELAX!! Be calm. Nobody said anything about me being pro farm deaths or anything like that. As I said in my post, the truth probably lies in the middle. I don't have strong feelings on this particular issue as it's not something I extremely in tune with.

I recall an interview, perhaps a year end interview or a Stampede interview where Notley indicated they are going to take a different approach to rural Alberta in this election. Try and listen and understand a little more about what went wrong there. I highly doubt, a very unpopular rural Alberta farm bill is in the cards.

Your a smart enough person to understand why that would be, they are in tough and need to win seats. Getting almost shut out of rural Alberta like they did in 2019 won't help them in 2023. They don't have a benefit of a 2015 split vote on the right.

Politics is very much like sports, if your getting your butt kicked, sometimes you got to look internally and see what is going wrong. If the NDP leader is admitting mistakes, which is actually smart and shows leadership, than all Albertan's should pay logical attention as it's important

[GGG]

I think most people have a personal risk tolerance that is higher than what OHS permits in the workplace.

So when you have a workplace like a farm that permeates your whole life it’s reasonable to expect people to apply the same risk level to the farm activities as their regular life activities.

How many people change into steel toed boots, wear the correct gloves, wear hearing protection, wear safety glasses and do a pre-job risk assessment before using a table saw or miter saw.

How many people do a walk around their vehicle every time they get in?
How many people speed by 10km on the highway
How many people hang Christmas lights safely

So I think we can agree that workplaces have higher safety standards than individuals and if the government told you you had to have these mandatory safety practices in your house you’d likely be pretty annoyed. Yet we accept them as routine in the work place.

So what the government was trying to do (and rightfully so) is to treat industrial farming operations as the dangerous industrial processes that they are rather than the cultural activity and way of life they also are.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by curves2000

RELAX!! Be calm.

I’m very calm and relaxed. Thanks for your concern though, but remember most people can’t accurately determine people’s emotions through text

Nobody said anything about me being pro farm deaths or anything like that. As I said in my post, the truth probably lies in the middle. I don't have strong feelings on this particular issue as it's not something I extremely in tune with.

Your previous post suggests otherwise but I guess if you want people to believe that you’re neutral on the matter while posting statements that aren’t and which you appear to have no interest in defending I guess that that’s fine.

I recall an interview, perhaps a year end interview or a Stampede interview where Notley indicated they are going to take a different approach to rural Alberta in this election. Try and listen and understand a little more about what went wrong there. I highly doubt, a very unpopular rural Alberta farm bill is in the cards.

This adds almost nothing to the discussion but your opinion is noted.

Your a smart enough person to understand why that would be, they are in tough and need to win seats. Getting almost shut out of rural Alberta like they did in 2019 won't help them in 2023. They don't have a benefit of a 2015 split vote on the right.

None of this has anything to do with my response to your post.

Politics is very much like sports,

Actually it’s almost nothing like sports.

if your getting your butt kicked, sometimes you got to look internally and see what is going wrong. If the NDP leader is admitting mistakes, which is actually smart and shows leadership, than all Albertan's should pay logical attention as it's important

So I take it you’re really not interested in defending any of the statements you made in your previous post? Thanks for coming out.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Turkish Tylenol is 75% strength and twice the price!

Or is Danielle going to tell us that if you water it down by 100 parts, it's twice as effective?

I think she’d tell us that kids should just take up smoking for the health benefits.

[Reggie Dunlop]

On the other hand, it could've been $80 million worth of Turkish essential oils.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

Turkish Tylenol is 75% strength and twice the price!



Or is Danielle going to tell us that if you water it down by 100 parts, it's twice as effective?

It's all relevant because no one is buying any when there's Tylenol on the shelf anyways! Why ask the Pharmacist for the weird Turkish stuff with complicated directions when you have to walk past the normal stuff?

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I’m not saying the UCP are an evil empire, how can you advocate for non-partisan discussion while throwing stuff like that out there and painting CP as “ABC”? I would think that while advocating for treating MLAs as individuals and not as party stand-ins, you would be more inclined to treat posters as individuals and avoid painting CP with a broad brush, no?

What I am saying is that the UCP has done enough damage that voting for someone running under the UCP banner because they’re a good person and the damage could have been even worse without them is… not a compelling argument to me. The UCP have been awful from a financial side of things. They blow money as bad or worse than any provincial government I’ve seen, they replaced an unlikeable but competent leader with an unlikeable and incompetent leader, they’ve made changes to education I disagree with and I fundamentally disagree with their views on healthcare and taxation. For the things they’ve done that I could, in theory, agree with, I feel they’ve done them poorly (provincial park fees) or been forced to do them by the federal government and created worse programs instead of better ones (childcare subsidy, carbon tax).

I liked Prentice, I was hopeful for Kenney. I‘ve even gone to bat for Jean. I am not a conservative but I have tried to see the best in every Conservative politician, preferring they have to prove me wrong than prove me right. But Smith is terrible, the UCP have an awful track record, and nothing about them gives me hope that the future will be different, so why do I owe a UCP MLA a chance at my vote? Why should i have to ignore everything to give them a chance when they’re already in government and have done SFA to change the negative direction of the UCP?

Knowing both these people, from dealing with them personally in politics, you had bad judgement there. Jean particularly is a pretty gross politician.

But I can understand your point.

But this party isn't going anywhere, regardless of how the upcoming election goes.

The party will only change from the inside and that is done by electing the right candidates for that party, if they represent and will listen to their constituents.

Which just all comes down to electing the right Candidates regardless of party.

I know this is a pie in the sky idea for someone who is currently mired in it. And I am sure in the future i will be completely jaded and worn down. But for now, I wanna believe!

Edit: Maybe I'll have to change my name to Wastedmidlife soon.

[Fuzz]

At this point they are better to admit their ####-up, use what they can in hospitals, and donate the rest to agencies in need and 3rd world countries who can actually use it, rather than let it expire on shelves and quietly buy it back from pharmacies in a year. But they UCP doesn't know how to admit they made a mistake, least of all Danielle Smith. She doesn't even know how to apologize.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Knowing both these people, from dealing with them personally in politics, you had bad judgement there. Jean particularly is a pretty gross politician.

But I can understand your point.

But this party isn't going anywhere, regardless of how the upcoming election goes.

The party will only change from the inside and that is done by electing the right candidates for that party, if they represent and will listen to their constituents.

Which just all comes down to electing the right Candidates regardless of party.

I know this is a pie in the sky idea for someone who is currently mired in it. And I am sure in the future i will be completely jaded and worn down. But for now, I wanna believe!

Edit: Maybe I'll have to change my name to Wastedmidlife soon.

I mean… I’ve also said kind things about Bernier and PP before the two put on their dunce caps, so you could argue I’m generous in giving the benefit of the doubt to politicians to a fault.

Which should also tell you something about exactly how bad Smith is.

You also need to understand that disqualifying the UCP for this election doesn’t mean nobody from the UCP ever gets an opportunity to earn my vote again. But as long as Smith is the leader, I will not vote for anyone that helps that person become the legitimately elected Premier.

It’s naive to believe that people shouldn’t think of the bigger picture when electing an MLA. If the MLA is fantastic but voting them in secures leadership for an incompetent, toxic loser, now is that a win for anyone?

Parties change from the inside when they lose elections, not when they win them. There’s no debate on that.

[fotze2]

Why isn't there a punk band named Turkish Tylenol yet?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by fotze2

Why isn't there a punk band named Turkish Tylenol yet?

wait fotze2....

is this a return?