2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[868904]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

I’d be shocked if ward didn’t report back to Treliving his thoughts after the Dallas debacle. Plus Treliving saw with his own eyes what happened. This is on Treliving as he couldn’t/wouldn’t make changes to core in off season. So we are paying for the inaction now.

All the talk from Treliving in the off season was about you can make changes but don’t want to make team worse. I think he way overvalues his players and/or our players are more valuable to us than the returns that other teams offered us. There seems to be an aversion to take one step back for two steps forward. Or even consider addition through subtraction. Not every deal has to be a home run and I think that’s how Treliving approaches trades. Singles and doubles count too.

This core hasn’t had a top end coach yet. It’s not fair to break up the core without giving that a try. GG and Ward may be two of the worst coaches I have ever seen. The Lightning wouldn’t have found success with these two idiots behind the bench.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

I’d be shocked if ward didn’t report back to Treliving his thoughts after the Dallas debacle. Plus Treliving saw with his own eyes what happened. This is on Treliving as he couldn’t/wouldn’t make changes to core in off season. So we are paying for the inaction now.

All the talk from Treliving in the off season was about you can make changes but don’t want to make team worse. I think he way overvalues his players and/or our players are more valuable to us than the returns that other teams offered us. There seems to be an aversion to take one step back for two steps forward. Or even consider addition through subtraction. Not every deal has to be a home run and I think that’s how Treliving approaches trades. Singles and doubles count too.

Or he could have made moves like Sutter when he traded Phaneuf and Jokinen for a pile of crap within 48hrs of each other. What about Feaster moving Regehr and a 2nd for a 6/7 Dman and prospect that was drafted 5 years before the trade and hadn’t established a full time role in the league yet?

I would rather have not traded Monahan or Gaudreau for a far lesser return for the sake of it.

[browntrout]

The team is medicore.....going to be hard for some to accept...but maybe teams like Edmonton, Toronto, Winnipeg have better rosters...

[TheGrimm]

Originally Posted by browntrout

The team is medicore.....going to be hard for some to accept...but maybe teams like Edmonton, Toronto, Winnipeg have better rosters...

The team is decent in the middle but lacks game breakers and doesn't play a consistent enough game to have success without them.

[blender]

Originally Posted by browntrout

The team is medicore.....going to be hard for some to accept...but maybe teams like Edmonton, Toronto, Winnipeg have better rosters...

Well I don't think anyone objective would argue that Toronto and Winnipeg don't have better rosters, and if Edmonton's isn't they certainly have the top-end talent advantage.

Not exactly breaking news.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by browntrout

The team is medicore.....going to be hard for some to accept...but maybe teams like Edmonton, Toronto, Winnipeg have better rosters...

I guess it is a little hard to accept considering they are the only Canadian team to win a division since the Canucks in 2013 or the only Canadian team to have made playoffs 2 years in a row. The only team to have 5 70+pt players since a 90’s Penguins team.

The team overachieved twice in their rebuild to give fans hope that they are not mediocre. They have had some pretty bland seasons in between their surprise run to the second round and their 2nd overall finish so I absolutely get the take that they are an average team that overachieved as much as one could think they are a decent team that is underachieving.

The elite team we saw for much of the 18/19 season definitely seems like an aberration though

[Yobbo]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

It was his opinion that the room is bad, but his opinion is worth something given his experience.

Someone posted this somewhere a few days ago:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/960/boomer-...chuk-incident/

I'm with Warrener on this one. There is definitely something wrong in that room, and nothing will change unless a huge overhaul of the team is done.

[blender]

To continue the discussion I would say that even the Flames roster may not be as good as some of our Canadian rivals, it isn't garbage either. There is plenty to like about it. Excution is absolutely awful right now.

[Sandman]

Other than McDavid and Drai-in no way, shape, or form does Edm have a better roster than us.

Coaching, on the other hand, is another matter.

[browntrout]

Originally Posted by blender

Well I don't think anyone objective would argue that Toronto and Winnipeg don't have better rosters, and if Edmonton's isn't they certainly have the top-end talent advantage.

Not exactly breaking news.

Well said...were in a tough division, you are not going to make the playoffs every year on average talent, I think this will be the season where if they don't make playoff, you will see the GM.try to make changes, if he has not already, just hard to accomplish sometimes....you need two willing GMs, trades are so difficult to make nowadays with the cap and covid as well

[browntrout]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Other than McDavid and Drai-in no way, shape, or form does Edm have a better roster than us.

Coaching, on the other hand, is another matter.

Superstars win cups...do you think Pittsburgh wins cups without Crosby or Malkin...ah but yes, it's the Pittsburgh model.....so laughable...

[browntrout]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Other than McDavid and Drai-in no way, shape, or form does Edm have a better roster than us.

Coaching, on the other hand, is another matter.

I do agree with what your saying....but superstar players make other players better around them....

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by browntrout

Superstars win cups...do you think Pittsburgh wins cups without Crosby or Malkin...ah but yes, it's the Pittsburgh model.....so laughable...

We have our own stars, they just don't always play that way. Gaudreau had 99pts two years ago. Tkachuk is a star. Lindholm is a star. Markstrom was one of the best goalies in the league for two years. Our D is in the top third of the league-most of the teams in our division would gladly trade their D for ours. Our roster looks fine on paper, it's just coaching and execution that are major problems.

[DionTheDman]

Originally Posted by Cowtownred

Change the coach, and go from there. See what we have under a seasoned NHL coach.

Maybe, but the Flames would only ever (1) hire a random nobody or (b) washed-up has-been, neither of whom will ever see another NHL head coaching job after leaving this team.

This is who Calgary has had as head coaches since the 2000-01 season:

1. Don Hay
2. Greg Gilbert
3. Darryl Sutter
4. Jim Playfair
5. Mike Keenan
6. Brent Sutter
7. Bob Hartley
8. Glen Gulutzan
9. Bill Peters
10. The guy we have now

AFAIK, on that list the only one that ever saw the a head coaching job in the NHL again was Darryl Sutter.

[Sandman]

You give this team to a Quenneville, Trotz, or even a Laviolette-we would not be talking bad about this team right now.

[browntrout]

Originally Posted by Sandman

We have our own stars, they just don't always play that way. Gaudreau had 99pts two years ago. Tkachuk is a star. Lindholm is a star. Markstrom was one of the best goalies in the league for two years. Our D is in the top third of the league-most of the teams in our division would gladly trade their D for ours. Our roster looks fine on paper, it's just coaching and execution that are major problems.

I get what your saying...not a big fan of the coach...but at the same time this core has been the same for so many years and what have they accomplished, sweet nothing, at a certain point it's up to the players to show they can win...to this date they have not and until they do maybe they are just not good enough

[Sandman]

Originally Posted by browntrout

I get what your saying...not a big fan of the coach...but at the same time this core has been the same for so many years and what have they accomplished, sweet nothing, at a certain point it's up to the players to show they can win...to this date they have not and until they do maybe they are just not good enough

And I get what you're saying-but this team hasn't had an elite coach since Darryl, so it's hard to see what they really are. Like I said, give this roster to a coach like the guys above, and watch things turn around.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by The Original FFIV

I’d be shocked if ward didn’t report back to Treliving his thoughts after the Dallas debacle. Plus Treliving saw with his own eyes what happened. This is on Treliving as he couldn’t/wouldn’t make changes to core in off season. So we are paying for the inaction now.

All the talk from Treliving in the off season was about you can make changes but don’t want to make team worse. I think he way overvalues his players and/or our players are more valuable to us than the returns that other teams offered us. There seems to be an aversion to take one step back for two steps forward. Or even consider addition through subtraction. Not every deal has to be a home run and I think that’s how Treliving approaches trades. Singles and doubles count too.

What? Not every trade needs to be a home run? Look at his trade history. Win or lose, I don’t think his deals look like he has been trying to fleece his counterparts. By in large, I don’t think the nhl works like that anymore.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by 868904

This core hasn’t had a top end coach yet. It’s not fair to break up the core without giving that a try. GG and Ward may be two of the worst coaches I have ever seen. The Lightning wouldn’t have found success with these two idiots behind the bench.

Yes, it is.

Coaching is a problem among a whole host of problems. But we are fundamentally missing high end talent in comparison with each team in this division with the exception of Ottawa.

The reason we're complaining about incomplete efforts so often? This team has lower margin for error than most because we lack the high end skill to take shifts off. The real crux of the issue is it's not like we have a roster full of hustling try-hard's either. It's a slow roster with lazy, skilled players - just not as skilled as most of their opponents.

You bring in a new coach that will scare them into some better habits in the short term and you'll see a bump in team performance, but not enough to make up for what the roster is lacking: speed, hustle, and skill

[blender]

Originally Posted by Sandman

Other than McDavid and Drai-in no way, shape, or form does Edm have a better roster than us.

Coaching, on the other hand, is another matter.

Not a hill I would die on but I think would rather have a couple of their 4th liners over a couple of ours.