[Trade] Flames trade Tanev (double retention) to Dallas for 2nd, cond. 3rd, Grushnikov

[dino7c]

Vancouver lost him for nothing and the Flames signed him at no asset cost four years ago...his tenure here was a win that will likely pay dividends for years to come

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

You're not getting it. It's not a ‘legal loophole’. There is no loophole. There is no way for one team to retain 75% on a contract. If somebody made a trade that included 75% retention, the league would instantly void it.

It was absolutely impossible for your first scenario to happen. The closest thing to a ‘loophole’ here is that New Jersey could insert themselves into the deal to retain the extra 25%. No matter how you slice it, that was not going to give any extra benefit to the Flames.

I think that's pretty much what I stated in the latter case and this is why I still feel this deal for the Flames is underwhelming.

Anyway, it'll be interesting to see other upcoming trades where teams are under cap constraints and other teams will be brought in to take in monetary cap hits just to satisfy the trades. Might happen again in dealing Hanifin and Markstrom.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by CSharp

I think that's pretty much what I stated in the latter case and this is why I still feel this deal for the Flames is underwhelming.

The point is that you compared the actual trade with a fantasy trade that is not allowed under the rules. Any trade will look ‘underwhelming’ if you compare it to a fantasy that can only exist inside your head.

[FlamesAddiction]

How would the paperwork look on this transaction? I kind of assumed that you can't trade salary retention straight up, or can you?

If this was technically a three-way deal, how would it actually shake down? I am trying to wrap my head around it. Would it be a bunch of separate deals?

New Jersey - Calgary: Cole Brady for Tanev (50% retained)

Dallas - Calgary: Grushnikov, 2nd rounder, and a conditional 3rd for Cole Brady

New Jersey - Dallas: Tanev (25% retained) for a 4th rounder


Or am I over thinking it?

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Pretty sure he gets it and is intentionally contorting to get the exact type of responses you guys have given.

If he doesn't get it, he's being clueless. If he does, he's being a clueless jerk.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I kind of assumed that you can't trade salary retention straight up, or can you?

You can't.

I'm not sure how the whole deal shook out in the paperwork, but I do know that the Devils included Cole Brady (a college goalie in his senior year, whom they apparently had no intention of signing) to make the deal possible. I am told they had to actually give up some kind of tangible asset to be eligible to take on retention.

[N-E-B]

Haven’t read the entire thread so I apologize if I regurgitate anything here.

The return is about what I expected. I was hoping a team would bite and offer up a 1st but I’m not surprised they didn’t. Tanev is a fantastic player but he carries a ton of injury risk. He could very well get injured a few games into his stint in Dallas and miss the rest of the year so I get why teams may have been hesitant to go with a first.

Love the direction Conroy is taking the team. He’s getting younger and stocking up draft capital. Having these picks gives the team options. We don’t necessarily have to use them at the draft. I would prefer if they did, but they have options now.

Overall I’d give Conroy a B+ on this deal. Missing out on the first prevents the A but it’s still a reasonably good return that most people can be satisfied with.

[ComixZone]

Chris Tanev was an excellent UFA signing.

He provided 3.8 seasons of fantastic hockey, and I truly believe that even with Markstrom falling on his face in the series that had Tanev been healthy and playing in all of the games of the BoA in 2022, the Flames would have won that series.

The return in this trade is just more ammo for Conroy to build the next era with. It's good to see the Flames taking this approach.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

How would the paperwork look on this transaction? I kind of assumed that you can't trade salary retention straight up, or can you?

If this was technically a three-way deal, how would it actually shake down? I am trying to wrap my head around it. Would it be a bunch of separate deals?

New Jersey - Calgary: Cole Brady for Tanev (50% retained)

Dallas - Calgary: Grushnikov, 2nd rounder, and a conditional 3rd for Cole Brady

New Jersey - Dallas: Tanev (25% retained) for a 4th rounder


Or am I over thinking it?

I think you’ve got it right. Special thanks to Cole for facilitating.

[FiveSeven]

I think the biggest cause affecting the overestimation of returns is the fact that they're all going to be UFAs, as simple as that sounds lol.
These speculative returns make sense for a hockey trade with term left or RFA status or a high likelihood of signing the player.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

The thread title is as concise as I could possibly make it given the character limit

I agree. Nothing confusing about the title. In fact, your titles are always easy to understand, so don't let the complainers make you second guess yourself.




Some rebuttals that I have for some posts:

• Tanev was free, so this was just gravy

Well, Tanev was free, but wasn't at the same time. Brodie tried to sign with the Flames, but Treliving didn't take his call (or had someone else take it), as Treliving was too busy signing Tanev and Markstrom. Brodie then signed with Toronto. Say what you will about value and so on, but Brodie is still playing top pairing on a 9th place team. Should probably be moved down to the 2nd pair IMO, but he was and continues to be an asset that would have remained in Calgary had Tanev not been available 'for free'. It was opportunity cost there.

• Why not wait until the deadline for max offers?

Conroy sent out the notification that he is ready to do the deal now. What if Tanev gets injured? Hold him out of games is definitely an option. What if he gets injured in practice? Or gets injured walking down the stairs? Everyone knew that Tanev was moving, and everyone interested go the heads up that this deal needs to be done now. I don't think that offers would have gone up. Maybe some teams have already relegated themselves to plan B and C, and there is less of a push?

• This kid with no offence has no NHL future

Has anyone really looked at Tanev's HockeyDB page? Here you go:
https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=10511


Look at where he came from. OJHL, then R.I.T. Went undrafted. Look at who played at R.I.T. His last year on the Marxam Waxers, only one single player on that team went on to play professional hockey (and surprisingly ended up in the NHL too!) - Joseph Cramarossa. Zero other players even made it on to an AHL team or another league somewhere in Europe. That's all you need to know about the quality of that team. Then on R.I.T - some players made it to the ECHL, a few to the AHL, but nobody beyond that. Some went and played in lower leagues in Europe for a few seasons.



To say that Tanev bucked the trend is a huge understatement. He also didn't put up a noticeable amount of points considering the league and teams he was playing on either.



Contrast that to Grushnikov - MHL, always on the U16, U17 and U18 programs. Was even selected for the U17WHC (6GP, 1G 4Pts). Then gets drafted into the OHL, and had to sit out the first year as the league shut down for covid. He was still drafted by Dallas - who also happens to be an EXCELLENT drafting team.


To hear Conroy talk about this kid makes you believe that he was targeted by Calgary. Conroy stated that he had the development personnel take a look at him, along with scouts, and they all really like him. Sure, if he makes it, he will be an outlier to many of these models due to his lack of offence, yet I bet that he shows really well at the upcoming camp. I wonder if Calgary brings him up for a cup of coffee at some point this season too?


I also really loved the tidbit that was shared about him working at doing deliveries to help his family. This kid is so determined to make it, that I wouldn't bet against it, and the people who have these models are going to have to figure out why he bucked the trend.



FWIW, he sounds just like Tanev, but.. nastier. That's great. Who does nastier Tanev sound like to me? Regehr. I doubt he gets that good, but it is nice to see a bit of this streak in a player, as it makes them much more difficult to play against.


I am going to really look forward to seeing how he looks live!

[FlamesAddiction]

It is kind of peculiar that NJ was part of this deal given the recent rumours of the Markstrom trade falling through.

I wonder if something happened that left Fitz sour with Conroy, so Conroy was like hey dude, if you are willing to eat some dead cap space for the rest of the season, I can get you a 4th round pick for your troubles. I am sure there are several teams in the league that would have been up for it, but the fact it was NJ stands out. Or maybe they were just in the right place at the right time with Conroy also in talks with Dallas about other matters.

It would be kind of like the time the Flames tried to traded the rights of Stoll when he was refusing to sign, to Toronto and "the fax machine broke", and the trade fell through, so the Leafs traded pending free agent Cujo to the Flames for a 4th, allowing us to get a compensatory 3rd rounder when he walked as a free agent (back when the NHL allowed that). Actually, I can't recall all the exact details, just that it benefited both teams, but Toronto chose Calgary to make the deal with to smooth things over about the Stoll thing, when they could have picked another team.

[MrMike]

All those saying Tanev was a free agent signing so free assets, we also let Brodie walk for free the same year, so if you go back that far, technically it’s a wash.

[Redrum]

Grush might get a couple NHL games this year. A look anyway. I haven't seen him, but I remember hearing about him being low scoring back during the draft. Didn't seem to hurt his draft position so we'll probably have to see him first before pretending we know what kind of player he is.

[Roof-Daddy]

All the Devils did here is buy themselves a 2026 4th round pick with a relatively small amount of cash and cap space. Fitz is clearly a GM that Conroy has been in contact with quite a bit lately, so the connection was obviously there and easy to utilize.

IMO that's all that is.

Hopefully a Markstrom to NJ trade still happens before the deadline though.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by MrMike

All those saying Tanev was a free agent signing so free assets, we also let Brodie walk for free the same year, so if you go back that far, technically it’s a wash.

not really relevant to the trade tree, at all
Leafs also couldn't give Brodie away right now

[CSharp]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The point is that you compared the actual trade with a fantasy trade that is not allowed under the rules. Any trade will look ‘underwhelming’ if you compare it to a fantasy that can only exist inside your head.

Don't get me going further than this. I'm sure everyone of us had fanticized what a Tanev deadline trade would be. This wasn't it, unfortunately. Also, I said the trade is underwhelming. I didn't say it is bad since I don't know how the prospect ans the pick will turn out depending on what the Flames will do during their rebuild and reload processes. For now, I think the Stars have a hell of a deal when they didn't really give up all that much. Even, the experts were hinting at a higher return for the Flames.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by CSharp

Don't get me going further than this. I'm sure everyone of us had fanticized what a Tanev deadline trade would be. This wasn't it, unfortunately. Also, I said the trade is underwhelming. I didn't say it is bad since I don't know how the prospect ans the pick will turn out depending on what the Flames will do during their rebuild and reload processes. For now, I think the Stars have a hell of a deal when they didn't really give up all that much. Even, the experts were hinting at a higher return for the Flames.

what experts?

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

lol not true . You don’t have to spin this hard

No spin at all, This is a very top heavy draft, the first 20 or so will be fairly consensual, the next 40 will be mostly in a blender, plenty of examples, the 2011 draft comes to mind.

This is the type of draft that tests the scouting staff big time.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by CSharp

I said the trade is underwhelming. I didn't say it is bad

That's kind of what ‘underwhelming’ means.