Toronto Blue Jays - Offseason Thread

[Jason14h]

Maybe a good aritcle to write if we are sitting here in April and the Jays haven't spent any money but to write that at the end of December with a bunch of FA out there and a very slow developing market?

But the fact is they made moves to fill holes with players who are not as good as what they had. You essentially are saying "they may do something else, so let's all pretend that this is all part of a master plan"

Sure if they pull off more big moves the article may become irrelevant. But the article is actually saying "Why not go for it!"

I think the Jays have played the market the right way. It wasn't a very good FA market so let teams overpay for the "top" of it and see how the rest comes to you. The people who have been asking the Jays to go all in and spend money are probably the same ones who in 2 seasons from now would screaming for a rebuild that can't happen because of all the bad money on the books.

It's hard to argue they 'played the market well.' They jumped in early on a slow market. How is that playing it 'well'

I'm fine with what they did. It's exactly what I expected. And you are 100% correct, when we have to rebuild (very soon) we probably don't want EE at age 36 and 20 million.

However, the point is the win baseball games and the world series. If we aren't serious about winning, why half @ss it? If anything MLB has shown you either go all in, or all out, and being in the middle is a recipe for disaster. A recipe until 2 years ago the Jays followed to a T.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

But the fact is they made moves to fill holes with players who are not as good as what they had. You essentially are saying "they may do something else, so let's all pretend that this is all part of a master plan"

Sure if they pull off more big moves the article may become irrelevant. But the article is actually saying "Why not go for it!"

Why would any team's master plan be completed in December? What I am saying is why are we assuming the Jays are done and they won't spend the 30 million or so they have left?
I also don't think you "go for it" through FA. The Jays had too many holes to fill via FA this year and in order to do so would have likely had to have a payroll of upwards of 180-190 million. I don't this that is feasible nor wise. As Cleveland showed you don't need to necessarily be the scariest team on paper to have a shot at the World Series.

Originally Posted by Jason14h

It's hard to argue they 'played the market well.' They jumped in early on a slow market. How is that playing it 'well'

I'm fine with what they did. It's exactly what I expected. And you are 100% correct, when we have to rebuild (very soon) we probably don't want EE at age 36 and 20 million.

However, the point is the win baseball games and the world series. If we aren't serious about winning, why half @ss it? If anything MLB has shown you either go all in, or all out, and being in the middle is a recipe for disaster. A recipe until 2 years ago the Jays followed to a T.

I also fail to see how they arn't serious about winning, because they don't overpay for FA? How was paying big for FA helped the Dogers? How'd Grienke do in Arizonz last year? How did year's of buying FA help the Yankees?
I don't agree with this notion that the Jays are cratering and have no shot at the playoffs next year. I still think the Jays have a very realistic shot at the playoffs pending making a few more moves of course.
A stronger bullpen with the same pitching staff and the offence as it stands on paper right now can still make the playoffs IMO. No doubt in my mind. I get there are some that don't want to see it play out and have their minds make up on Rogers and that's fine but for me I see now reason why they won't add a few more pieces to this team and why they won't have a shot at contending for the playoffs again next year.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

However, the point is the win baseball games and the world series. If we aren't serious about winning, why half @ss it? If anything MLB has shown you either go all in, or all out, and being in the middle is a recipe for disaster. A recipe until 2 years ago the Jays followed to a T.

The point for whom?

One would argue that the point of owning the team is to make money (or have a great tax write-off)... Everyone else's motivations in the organization are restricted by the owner's motivations.

[Jason14h]

One would argue that the point of owning the team is to make money (or have a great tax write-off)... Everyone else's motivations in the organization are restricted by the owner's motivations.

Fair enough. And this is why some people, like me, hate the fact the Jays are owner by Rogers.

Most people hope sports teams are owned to put the most entertaining product on the field/ice for the viewer, while not loosing money. The fact Rogers uses the extra revenue for the Jays to subsidize other sporting revenue and their general revenue numbers is frustrating.

If you argument is Rogers is making these moves to pocket profit, I agree 100%!

[Jason14h]

I also don't think you "go for it" through FA. The Jays had too many holes to fill via FA this year and in order to do so would have likely had to have a payroll of upwards of 180-190 million. I don't this that is feasible nor wise.

It's easily feasible for Rogers. They choose to pocket the extra revenue they made the last 2 years. Most executives think Rogers could choose to outspend everyone and still turn a profit if they wanted too.

As Cleveland showed you don't need to necessarily be the scariest team on paper to have a shot at the World Series.

Cleveland was built from the ground up on scouting and drafting. The Jays haven't developed a hitter in 20 years. I hope in 2-3 year we start to see some development

I also fail to see how they arn't serious about winning, because they don't overpay for FA? How was paying big for FA helped the Dogers? How'd Grienke do in Arizonz last year? How did year's of buying FA help the Yankees?
I don't agree with this notion that the Jays are cratering and have no shot at the playoffs next year. I still think the Jays have a very realistic shot at the playoffs pending making a few more moves of course.
A stronger bullpen with the same pitching staff and the offence as it stands on paper right now can still make the playoffs IMO. No doubt in my mind. I get there are some that don't want to see it play out and have their minds make up on Rogers and that's fine but for me I see now reason why they won't add a few more pieces to this team and why they won't have a shot at contending for the playoffs again next year.

Sure they can contend for playoffs. In the AL Tampa and Chicago are in rebuild 100%. That leaves 12 teams with 5 making playoffs! I easily put us ahead of Oakland and Minny, so we have a 5/10 chance!

Will Happ really win 22 games? Will Sanchez lead the league in ERA? Will our entire pitching staff stay healthy for the season like last season.

A ton of things actually went right for the Jays last season, and we tied for the wildcard spot.

Is anyone going to say this years team has IMPROVED on last years team? I haven't seen any moves to improve the team, and I'm not banking on future magic moves that haven't happened, I'm evaluating the team on what they have right now.

[Trojan97]

Everyone is sleeping on Morales. He should be a very good bat moving from Kauffman Field to Skydome. I'm not saying he's going to make us forget about Edwin but he's more than likely going to be a very serviceable replacement.

This is his 2016 spray chart overlayed on the Rogers Centre dimensions. Morales is going to rake in a more hitter friendly ballpark.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Fair enough. And this is why some people, like me, hate the fact the Jays are owner by Rogers.

Most people hope sports teams are owned to put the most entertaining product on the field/ice for the viewer, while not loosing money. The fact Rogers uses the extra revenue for the Jays to subsidize other sporting revenue and their general revenue numbers is frustrating.

If you argument is Rogers is making these moves to pocket profit, I agree 100%!

I agree with you, although there are tons of owners in MLB that pull this crap.

The best way to force clubs into spending is, honestly, a salary cap. No better way to show you are committed to winning than spending to it.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by Trojan97

Everyone is sleeping on Morales. He should be a very good bat moving from Kauffman Field to Skydome. I'm not saying he's going to make us forget about Edwin but he's more than likely going to be a very serviceable replacement.

I get i will be very much on my own here but honestly when you look big picture I prefer Morales at the deal he got than giving 4 years and 80 mill plus to Edwin. I think the gap between Morales to EE will shrink with Morales at Rogers center and I think when you factor in contract value and the fact he is a switch hitter I don't think its the massive upgrade to EE alot of people think.

Now obviously if EE ends up signing for much less the Jays won't look very good but personally i'm happy with how things have gone so far. EE is the better bat for sure i'm not arguing he isn't, but I think all things considered Morales is a good get too. I think many are under estimating how important it is to add a switch hitter into the middle of the lineup and balance the lineup out.

[ClubFlames]

Chris Colabello signs a minor league deal with the Indians.

[ClubFlames]

http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/118...ing-in-toronto

Bautista has reportedly rejected at least one contract offer from an unknown club specifically because he wants to return to the Blue Jays, where he's spent the last nine seasons and become a beloved franchise icon, MLB Network's Jon Morosi reported during an appearance on Sportsnet 590 The Fan's "Dean Blundell & Co." program Tuesday morning.

[cross16]

As much as i've been outspoken about not wanting Bautista back the way the outfield market is developing brining him back on a 1 year deal is looking like a fairly attractive option. Certainly of the FA options left and the obvious trade candidates (Bruce/Granderson) I think he is the best option again provided he is willing to just take the qualifying offer. I woudn't want to see him get any term. Could mabye stomach 2 years if the $ figure was something reasonable but certainly don't want to see anything more than 2 years.

[CedarMeter]

A little off topic but what the hell happened with beer tosser Ken Pagan? His first court date was November 24th. They pushed the date to December 8th and I haven't heard anything since. Has anyone have updated information about him? Did he plead guilty?

[alan21]

Originally Posted by cross16

As much as i've been outspoken about not wanting Bautista back the way the outfield market is developing brining him back on a 1 year deal is looking like a fairly attractive option. Certainly of the FA options left and the obvious trade candidates (Bruce/Granderson) I think he is the best option again provided he is willing to just take the qualifying offer. I woudn't want to see him get any term. Could mabye stomach 2 years if the $ figure was something reasonable but certainly don't want to see anything more than 2 years.

If anything I think it would be a one year deal with maybe 1 year of player option. I think that's the best he can do with his current situation. He gets to re-build value and opt out for a multi-year deal with no pick attached next off season.

If he craps the bed again with injuries, he's got a safety net of being able to try again.

[CedarMeter]

Just got an email back from an editor in Toronto. He no showed for his Dec 8th court appearance. He'll be back in court early in the new year.

[bluejays]

At this point I'm for bringing back Bautista...in LF. I'm sure they can platoon someone in CF, but I really think more and more Pillar has to be dealt for a power hitter in RF.

[flambers]

Personally, I hope the Jay's have a plan and they are continuing to work it.

Bautista is more of a DH or 1st type of player at this point in his career.

Jay's need to move on from Jose & Edwin.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by fleury

At this point I'm for bringing back Bautista...in LF. I'm sure they can platoon someone in CF, but I really think more and more Pillar has to be dealt for a power hitter in RF.

Unlikely. Pillar is a legit elite centerfielder one year away from arbitration. That's very valuable. That's not to say that I wouldn't trade him for an even more valuable commodity (in terms of surplus value) but it would be very hard to find that.

[REDVAN]

I don't understand this push for our CF to be a masher. If Pillar just got on base and STAYED on base more often, he'd be more than serviceable.

Right now he's just serviceable... but I like him.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by REDVAN

If Pillar just got on base and STAYED on base more often, he'd be more than serviceable.

He's already more then serviceable... he's that good defensively. If he got on base more he'd be a genuine MLB star.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Parallex

He's already more then serviceable... he's that good defensively. If he got on base more he'd be a genuine MLB star.

If he got on base more he would be Kevin Kiermaier