The Ongoing Coyotes Sale Thread

[afc wimbledon]

I don't think you can fund a team with tourist fans, as of the 42 games a year how many will be with teams who's fans would bother to travel to a game (ie Canadian).

A team in Vegas would have to sell at least half of its seats and all its sky box's to locals.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

Also.. I would be all over a Vegas NHL team.

Not surprising, given your penchant for teams being placed in god-awful markets.

There's a good reason why Las Vegas has no professional teams. It's home to an ECHL team, and had a CFL team for exactly ONE full season back in the early 90s. There are a ton of entertainment options in Vegas competing for everyone's money. And no one is going to go to Las Vegas to watch a hockey game.

If it's such a good idea, why isn't there an NFL team in Las Vegas? Major League Baseball? NBA? Especially NFL when you consider how rabid American fans are about football. It's like a religion.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Not surprising, given your penchant for teams being placed in god-awful markets.

There's a good reason why Las Vegas has no professional teams. It's home to an ECHL team, and had a CFL team for exactly ONE full season back in the early 90s. There are a ton of entertainment options in Vegas competing for everyone's money. And no one is going to go to Las Vegas to watch a hockey game.

You look like a total idiot when you make that statement right after someone claims they would go to a game in Vegas.

If it's such a good idea, why isn't there an NFL team in Las Vegas? Major League Baseball? NBA? Especially NFL when you consider how rabid American fans are about football. It's like a religion.

It's because they are worried about putting a team in a place where betting is condoned.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I don't think you can fund a team with tourist fans, as of the 42 games a year how many will be with teams who's fans would bother to travel to a game (ie Canadian).

A team in Vegas would have to sell at least half of its seats and all its sky box's to locals.

I think the other problem is most locals work in the evenings, entertaining tourists? How can they go to hockey games?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by troutman

I think the other problem is most locals work in the evenings, entertaining tourists? How can they go to hockey games?

Not a town that has much time for losers either, they'd better win the cup first year and then at the least be as good as Detroit there after if they want any high roller interest.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

You look like a total idiot when you make that statement right after someone claims they would go to a game in Vegas.



It's because they are worried about putting a team in a place where betting is condoned.

Give me a break. The NHL is run by some of the most corrupt, unethical white collar criminals in North America. They would have no moral dilemma with pacing a team in Vegas.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

You look like a total idiot when you make that statement right after someone claims they would go to a game in Vegas.

My statement is perfectly fine when you take into consideration my opening statement (user has a strange attraction to teams in places that aren't conducive to hockey), which hints that his opinion doesn't jive with the majority of people. Really, I love hockey, but if you were going to Las-friggin'-Vegas, hockey would likely be the last thing on your mind and I suspect a vast majority of people would agree.

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

It's because they are worried about putting a team in a place where betting is condoned.

Oh please. You don't think that - if it was economically viable - the NFL would jump to put a team in Las Vegas? It's a business and all it would take is the league to have dollar signs in its eyes to try and put a team there. Luckily, some smart person did their research and undoubtedly suggested otherwise.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Oh please. You don't think that - if it was economically viable - the NFL would jump to put a team in Las Vegas? It's a business and all it would take is the league to have dollar signs in its eyes to try and put a team there. Luckily, some smart person did their research and undoubtedly suggested otherwise.

You mean the league that doesn't have a team in Los Angeles?

Cowperson

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

You mean the league that doesn't have a team in Los Angeles?

Cowperson

It's been tried in Los Angeles before, remember the "Los Angeles Raiders"?

There are far more factors in why Los Angeles doesn't have a team than why Las Vegas is a crap place to put an NHL team.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Oh please. You don't think that - if it was economically viable - the NFL would jump to put a team in Las Vegas? It's a business and all it would take is the league to have dollar signs in its eyes to try and put a team there. Luckily, some smart person did their research and undoubtedly suggested otherwise.

Economics are not the problem with Las Vegas, the City is growing and booming... Only problem is the Gambling issue...

So far no professional sport (i.e. MLB, NBA, NFL or NHL) is willing to try it out.

If Green Bay can make Football work.... Vegas could easily make it work...

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by flambers

Economics are not the problem with Las Vegas, the City is growing and booming... Only problem is the Gambling issue...

So far no professional sport (i.e. MLB, NBA, NFL or NHL) is willing to try it out.

If Green Bay can make Football work.... Vegas could easily make it work...

The city is not growing and booming, it has one of the most depressed economies in the US and has been devestated by the recesion, gambling and holidays being low on the unemployeds priorities.

Distressed sales represent about 70% of all real estate sales in Vegas, that is basically foreclosures. Average house prices running in the 130's, thats a detached family home for 130,000.

From the Business Insider magazine:-

There are quite a few U.S. cities that are complete and utter economic disaster zones in 2010 (Detroit for example), but there is something about the demise of Las Vegas that is absolutely stunning.
In recent decades, Las Vegas has become a symbol for the over-the-top affluence and decadence of America. But now it is a microcosm of the economic nightmare that has gripped the entire nation. When the subprime mortgage crisis stuck, no major U.S. city was more devastated than Las Vegas. When the recession went from bad to worse, Americans decided that they really didn't need to gamble so much and casino revenues plummeted. Suddenly unemployment started to increase dramatically in Vegas and even today it continues to soar. Like so many other cities that are highly dependent on tourism and entertainment, Las Vegas has gone from boom to bust. Local officials are hoping that the worst will soon be over, but the truth is that the worst is yet to come.
As the U.S. economy continues to unravel, average Americans will be spending what little money they do have to put a roof over their heads and to feed their families. The truth is that the glory days of Las Vegas are over and they are not coming back.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-s...#ixzz1I0JK0SMO

The gambling/hotel industry's take has dropped to mid 1980's levels as well.


A study released by the Brookings Institution and the London School of Economics ranked Las Vegas' economy as one of the world's five worst, due in large part to oversized bets on real estate.
The only cities that fared worse than Las Vegas at 146 in their ranking of 150 metropolitan areas were Dublin, Ireland, Dubai, United Arab Emirates, Barcelona, Spain, and Thessaloniki, Greece. The rankings weigh jobs, job growth and income, comparing recent performance to pre-recession metrics.
Alan Berube, a senior fellow and research director of the Brookings Metropolitan Policy Program, said the characteristic the cities at the bottom of the list shared were their dependence on housing and the real estate market.
"Places like Dublin, Dubai, Barcelona, Las Vegas - all of those metropolitan areas got caught up in real estate bubble," Berube said.

The major Casinos have lost roughly 50% of their share price as well, to sum up there will be no pro sports in Vegas for years, the city is effectively broke.

[automaton 3]

Clark County (Las Vegas) looks to have a household income of $53,000.

For comparision: Calgary's looks to be $122,459 for 2010. Winnipeg's is $70,510 for 2008.

Las Vegas is not looking like a particularly prosperous region.

[troutman]

Why saddle Glendale taxpayers with risk?
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spe...118826079.html

Scottsdale Mayor Jim Lane penned an editorial on the weekend torching the deal between Glendale and Hulsizer.

"Desperation creates an environment for desperate acts. As a result, (Glendale) temporarily waived rental fees and then offered up another $25 million in cash to keep the team afloat," writes Lane. "Now, Glendale has increased the risk for taxpayers by seeking to borrow another $116 million to facilitate the private purchase for a new owner. Throwing good money after bad can be a desperate strategy. In the past, cities engaged in these types of large "risk" capital investments with disregard for the true risk or downside.

"The reality of this risk is not fair to a community that already has put so much of its credit on the line for this single private franchise. Glendale taxpayers originally shelled out $180 million for the facility. The potential buyer, Matthew Hulsizer, has a great opportunity to rescue the Coyotes and respect the existing taxpayers' investment commitment. Hulsizer's success as a Chicago investment-fund manager has brought him personal wealth and access to financial capital to expand his business portfolio. As a man with considerable wealth, he has said, "I don't need the city's credit to buy the team." So why saddle Glendale taxpayers with risk in his personal investment in purchasing the team?"

[troutman]

Phoenix Coyotes front office executive resigns
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...executive.html

Jim Brewer has stepped down as vice president of marketing and communications for the Phoenix Coyotes.

Brewer was hired in August to succeed Jeff Holbrook, who left when the National Hockey League fired Doug Moss as Coyotes president.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by troutman

Jim Brewer has stepped down as vice president of marketing and communications for the Phoenix Coyotes

Doesn't want to move to Winnipeg.

[troutman]

How about those Thrashers?
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL.../17786826.html

Speculation is growing that the Atlanta Thrashers could be ready for relocation before the Phoenix Coyotes mess is settled.

Their majority owner recently said the team has lost $130 million over the last six years and the team may have to relocate if new investors can’t be found.

— Atlanta Spirit, which currently owns the Thrashers, the NBA’s Atlanta Hawks and Phillips Arena, has indicated there are two parties kicking tires on the Thrashers but nobody has come forward with a firm offer as of yet.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

Doesn't want to move to Winnipeg.

There is speculation that Hulsizer wants his own people in place.

[greyshep]

Originally Posted by troutman

Why saddle Glendale taxpayers with risk?
http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/spe...118826079.html

Scottsdale Mayor Jim Lane penned an editorial on the weekend torching the deal between Glendale and Hulsizer.


"The reality of this risk is not fair to a community that already has put so much of its credit on the line for this single private franchise. Glendale taxpayers originally shelled out $180 million for the facility. The potential buyer, Matthew Hulsizer, has a great opportunity to rescue the Coyotes and respect the existing taxpayers' investment commitment. Hulsizer's success as a Chicago investment-fund manager has brought him personal wealth and access to financial capital to expand his business portfolio. As a man with considerable wealth, he has said, "I don't need the city's credit to buy the team." So why saddle Glendale taxpayers with risk in his personal investment in purchasing the team?"

That is it in a nutshell. There is a quick and easy way to end this saga.

Use your own money.

The fact that he is unwilling to do so says it all.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by greyshep

That is it in a nutshell. There is a quick and easy way to end this saga.

Use your own money.

The fact that he is unwilling to do so says it all.

Well it says he is a smart business man that doesn't want to chance his own money on a very, very, very bad business model, hockey in the desert.

[greyshep]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Well it says he is a smart business man that doesn't want to chance his own money on a very, very, very bad business model, hockey in the desert.

Sure I suppose, but he isnt looking too smart by spouting off statements like that and not backing it up with any action when the going gets tough.