Brad Treliving needs to go

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I don't understand the desire to re-sign Lindholm. He showed us this year that he isn't a player that pushes the needle for this group and will almost be 30 when that next contract kicks in.

Do you really want to make the same mistake you just did with Kadri and Huberdeau and sign a player like this for 8 years, likely over $8MM AAV?

Trade him this off-season, retain salary (I know this scares the Murray Edwards), and get a haul for him while you can. Don't turn another asset into an immovable object.

Like Backlund he provides more than just scoring but how much do you pay for that? He's a complementary center that needs to play with talented wingers to produce offensively. I just don't know how you can pay him into his late 30's without moving Kadri out at the very least. The best teams in the league are paying $$$ to elite forwards that move the needle night after night offensively and I don't think the Flames can compete with that by paying non-elite players like Kadri, Huberdeau (he's yet to show he's elite as a Flame), and Lindholm for their post-apex years.

[The Professor]

If, big if, we do move on from Tre. Who is available? Who would people want that we think might do better with the pieces we have?

Also, curious about coaching. I think it's much more likely that we see a new coach next year. Who is available as a replacement? Is Muller the guy? Someone else? Whole new staff? Does this deserve its own thread?

[SportsJunky]

Here is an article about Treliving's decision to keep Frolik (for just a few months as it turned out) which resulted in Calgary having to bridge Tkachuk instead of possibly inking a long-term deal. https://thewincolumn.ca/2023/04/11/b...algary-flames/

Hindsight is 20/20 of course, but given how the Frolik situation ended (with him being a healthy scratch and complaining about ice time), it’s a rough look for the franchise. If they had been able to move Frolik, they can sign Tkachuk to a long-term deal, say seven years. Had that happened, things would look a lot better right now. I understand the rationale behind keeping the group together, but sometimes you have to make decisions for the franchise long-term.

[Strange Brew]

When does Francis drop his bombshell that he teased a few weeks ago.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

I adore Bergeron and think he might be the best player drafted from the mid 2000s after Crosby/Ovi, but you can't ignore that he has had incredible linemates (and stability of linemates)

Not sure appeal to Sutter's authority is a strong argument at the moment, either.

It’s less about the quality of Lindholm than asking why Lindholm would want to come back to a team that’s adrift, and that doesn’t even use him in key situations.

[Toonage]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

When does Francis drop his bombshell that he teased a few weeks ago.

When something big happens he'll chime in and say "see, this is what I was talking about". He'll just pick which event it is I suppose.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

So let's see, this is somehow Tre's fault even though...

- Inadequate 3 on 3 and shootout performance. 7-17 in extra time. Most likely a coaching issue. Even out the wins & losses at 12-12, that's +5 points.

- Too many regulation losses to bottom feeders. Swap even 2 of them from losses to wins and that's +4 points.

- Marky having a very down year. If he provides even a bit better goaltending we're looking at +4 points.

- Huby closer to his career averages in production, +4 points at least.

- Kylington missing all year. +3 or 4 points if he doesn't disappear suddenly before the season.

- Kadri inconsistent, more points there if he's more consistent.

Add at least 20 points to the Flames total, points they should have had, and we're having a VERY different conversation. A bunch of things outside of Tre's control completely sank the team and you're ready to run him out of town? smh

So far Kadri looks like the 2nd coming of James Neal, or the 3rd coming of Troy Brouwer. Treliving should absolutely be roasted for wasting so much money on awful free agent signings

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

When does Francis drop his bombshell that he teased a few weeks ago.

If he wants to be an arsonist, right after garbage bag day.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

Here is an article about Treliving's decision to keep Frolik (for just a few months as it turned out) which resulted in Calgary having to bridge Tkachuk instead of possibly inking a long-term deal. https://thewincolumn.ca/2023/04/11/b...algary-flames/

That article is goofy. Tkachuk's contract was signed Sept. 25, 2019, after a threatened holdout. He got $7M, the highest salary on the team, the first one to pass Gio, after a season in which he was very good, but still 4th on the team in scoring (with too good but not elite seasons prior). There is no mention of what Tkachuk was asking for a longer term or even if he wanted one. I suspect he was asking for 5 or 6 years, like Gaudreau got, not 8 like Gio.

The article doesn't mention that Frolik had a 10 team NTC. That he was coming off a career best season considering his games not played due to injury. And that his contract ended after that season, so I doubt it was the impediment to a Tkachuk deal. The impediment was Neal. Plus long term committed money to Gaudreau, Monahan, Lindholm, Hanifin and Backlund, and, to a lesser extent, Ryan.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

When does Francis drop his bombshell that he teased a few weeks ago.

Suspect it will be some sort of announcement that Treleving won't be back. He won't be fired because his contract is coming to an end. It will be a mutual parting of ways. I suspect that comes 2-3 days after garbage bag day.

[activeStick]

Sigh. I have a bad feeling that with this current uncertainty around the global economy that is still trying to get out of and past the pandemic, that ownership decides that now is not the time to be throwing money around willy nilly, so they decide to let Tre walk, promote Sutter to GM and Head Coach. They may not want to, but they'll reason it out that it's only for 2 years.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by The Professor

If, big if, we do move on from Tre.

I think it's much more likely that we see a new coach next year.

I'd say it's the other way around after giving Sutter an extension last summer.

If things with the players really are as bad as the media hints they are maybe they work out a Peters type deal with him to cut ties or he just decides it's best if he leaves. Otherwise they probably just hope this was a one off season.

They could end up extending Treliving but I don't think it's a 'big if' to decide not to after what happened this season.

[Wiggum_PI]

Originally Posted by keenan87

I have been done with Treliving for quite a while and got called out on it all the time. However, enough is enough!

He has no clue how to build a proper team and his schtick of being the "smartest" guy in the room has led to where we currently stand with the Calgary Flames.

Bad Coach
Bad Players
Bad GM

It's time for a change.

The OP nailed it two years ago.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That article is goofy. Tkachuk's contract was signed Sept. 25, 2019, after a threatened holdout. He got $7M, the highest salary on the team, the first one to pass Gio, after a season in which he was very good, but still 4th on the team in scoring (with too good but not elite seasons prior). There is no mention of what Tkachuk was asking for a longer term or even if he wanted one. I suspect he was asking for 5 or 6 years, like Gaudreau got, not 8 like Gio.

Yes, but again, age matters. For what Tkachuk was doing at his age was a sign that he was going to be an elite player. You don't pay players at that point only for what they did, but what he think they will do. I doubt Treliving would have short bridged Tkachuk if he thought that he was going to become an elite player, meanwhile, Tkachuk bet on himself. We all know who won that bet.

[BoLevi]

Originally Posted by edslunch

If he wants to be an arsonist, right after garbage bag day.

I'm not really a Francis fan, but he's the closest thing this city has to a non-sycophantic media presence.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Suspect it will be some sort of announcement that Treleving won't be back. He won't be fired because his contract is coming to an end. It will be a mutual parting of ways. I suspect that comes 2-3 days after garbage bag day.

That would be a cop-out. Francis made it sound like he had a lot of dirt to spill regarding the locker room, coach vs GM, etc. He better deliver.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

It’s less about the quality of Lindholm than asking why Lindholm would want to come back to a team that’s adrift, and that doesn’t even use him in key situations.

Fair. The answer is because he can secure $64-72M well in advance and eliminate any personal risk.

Anything in the neighbourhood of 8x8.5 seems like totally reasonable value (probably a slight discount, as typical when signing 1 yr early). And that deal wouldn't preclude a trade at any time (at least until whatever trade protection kicks in)

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Yes, but again, age matters. For what Tkachuk was doing at his age was a sign that he was going to be an elite player. You don't pay players at that point only for what they did, but what he think they will do. I doubt Treliving would have short bridged Tkachuk if he thought that he was going to become an elite player, meanwhile, Tkachuk bet on himself. We all know who won that bet.

There are two people in the negotiation. I suspect Tkachuk was asking for the moon and not for max term. And was never interested in playing here anyway.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Fair. The answer is because he can secure $64-72M well in advance and eliminate any personal risk.

Anything in the neighbourhood of 8x8.5 seems like totally reasonable value (probably a slight discount, as typical when signing 1 yr early). And that deal wouldn't preclude a trade at any time (at least until whatever trade protection kicks in)

As a UFA contract, he can negotiate for trade protection from day 1. He will do so, not so much because he wants to stay - because he wants control.

I think the only advantage Calgary has in that negotiation is the Swedish factor in the team. That said, they are one Swede down with Kylington already. Maybe Backlund, Markstrom and Andersson can take him for a heart to heart.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

As a UFA contract, he can negotiate for trade protection from day 1. He will do so, not so much because he wants to stay - because he wants control.

I think the only advantage Calgary has in that negotiation is the Swedish factor in the team. That said, they are one Swede down with Kylington already. Maybe Backlund, Markstrom and Andersson can take him for a heart to heart.

I mean if you extend him this off-season any NTC wouldn't kick in until July 1 2024.

Which would still have to involve a dialogue as you don't want an organizational reputation of screwing over your players by signing them long-term and then shipping them somewhere they don't want to go, but it would be mutually beneficial to get ink on paper this summer