Russia invades Ukraine

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by mivdo

I honestly wonder where Ukraine would be if Trump was still in power. It actually bothers me how different this timeline could have been.

Trumpers say Putin wouldn't dare evade Ukraine under Trumps watch but the reality is Ukraine would be toast by now.

[TKB]

Originally Posted by starseed

I think Ukrainians will be erecting a monument of Blinken and Biden when this is all over. I get the sense they are very grateful for the support from the USA and UK in particular. Especially after the delivery of the HIMARS.

As for the rest of the world, there will be a new appreciation and respect for the US war machine, and the necessity of the maintenance of the arsenal of democracy. There will also be stronger pressure in other NATO countries to take the 2% goal seriously.

Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Tapatalk

Would be nice to see Canada get their crap together and turn our rusted out forces into a proper military.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Trumpers say Putin wouldn't dare evade Ukraine under Trumps watch but the reality is Ukraine would be toast by now.

Trump was impeached for trying to blackmail Zelenskyy so yeah, there's no way he would overcome his wounded pride to help Ukraine. Plus we know Trump was (is?) Putin's lapdog. And he prefers authoritarianism over democracy.

So yeah, the timeline would have been very different. You kind of wonder why Putin didn't seize the initiative under Trump's presidency, but then again I'm sure he believed in an easy victory regardless.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by icarus

Trump was impeached for trying to blackmail Zelenskyy so yeah, there's no way he would overcome his wounded pride to help Ukraine. Plus we know Trump was (is?) Putin's lapdog. And he prefers authoritarianism over democracy.

So yeah, the timeline would have been very different. You kind of wonder why Putin didn't seize the initiative under Trump's presidency, but then again I'm sure he believed in an easy victory regardless.

I get the sense now in hindsight, Trump was actively trying to defame Ukraine in order to diminish any global sympathy for them when the invasion was going to happen. I am pretty convinced that Trump was compromised by Putin somehow. I am not pushing the pee video theory, but I do think Trump was tool for the Kremlin.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by mivdo

I honestly wonder where Ukraine would be if Trump was still in power. It actually bothers me how different this timeline could have been.

When this war started I remember googling an old English -language article saying that if Biden wins, there will be a major war in Ukraine. In retrospect it seems that US and Russia had been on a crash course for years.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The problem for Russia is they have now created an implacable enemy with a dagger pointed to their heart, by losing this war they both allow and also force Ukraine to become a sort of East European Israel, constantly training and preparing for war, equipped with the finest weapons the US and west can provide, over the next 5 or 10 years the older Russian gear gets replaced with M1's and F16's and the like.

Russia, even if it never plans another war with Ukraine again will have to deploy the bulk of its armed forces around Ukraine as they will/have now become an existential threat to Russia, this is a strategic #### up we haven't seen since, ironically, Hitler invaded Russia

This war was a lunacy from the start and many Russians, myself included, said so much. It never looked like a well-calculated masterpiece of evil, it always had been idiotic strategic failure based on moronic assumptions.

[bizaro86]

I had the most amazing experience today and this seems like the place to share it.

Some of you know that when I was a teenager both my (now) wife and myself took a summer volunteer trip to Ukraine. We were mostly working with kids in a rural area, and it absolutely rips me apart that the 3-5 year olds I spent the summer reading to and playing games with are now almost certainly all engaged in a brutal war for survival. I'm often on CP late at night now because I can't sleep thinking about it.

A bunch of us were billeted with an amazing family in this little village. They took care of us, fed us, and were just wonderful hosts. Today, my wife got a whats app message (kind of a friend-of-a-friend thing) that someone was looking for winter clothing for some Ukrainian refugees who have kids a bit younger than ours, and did we have any extras/hand-me-downs that would suit. As the conversation progressed, she found out some information about the family.

It turns out that the family who billeted us in Ukraine ~20 years ago has fled the country. The parents, their two children, the children's spouses, and the grandchildren are all living temporarily with a family IN CALGARY. I have no idea what the odds of this are, it seems astronomical to me. Obviously we'll be doing the winter clothes and more, and we haven't made it down to see them yet as we just found out today. I'm sort of in shock and am a bit unsure of exactly what to do next, but had to share it somewhere and this thread seemed like a reasonable place.

[Street Pharmacist]

I'm not naive enough to believe it played a pivotal role in Putin's decision to invade, but I do wonder what the momentum of the Transition away from fossil fuels played. Europe was very open about their plan to stop using oil & gas, so his leverage was likely at it's peak in February when it looked like Europe was going to need to beg Putin for gas. Energy is Russia's biggest bargaining chip, and if it's going to be diminished in 5 to 10 years, it has to weigh on his mind. This war has only accelerated that move

[Pointman]

Russia says 17000 people fled from Donbass into Russia yesterday. Presumably civilians who are ethnic Russian. They probably wish Russia should have never tried to "protect" them.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I'm not naive enough to believe it played a pivotal role in Putin's decision to invade, but I do wonder what the momentum of the Transition away from fossil fuels played. Europe was very open about their plan to stop using oil & gas, so his leverage was likely at it's peak in February when it looked like Europe was going to need to beg Putin for gas. Energy is Russia's biggest bargaining chip, and if it's going to be diminished in 5 to 10 years, it has to weigh on his mind. This war has only accelerated that move

Good question.

Although Putin is one of the few world leaders who doesn't seem to believe in climate change at all, or at least he hasn't done anything about it.

[icarus]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I get the sense now in hindsight, Trump was actively trying to defame Ukraine in order to diminish any global sympathy for them when the invasion was going to happen. I am pretty convinced that Trump was compromised by Putin somehow. I am not pushing the pee video theory, but I do think Trump was tool for the Kremlin.

Well, Cambridge Analytica and a whole army of Russian bots that helped turned everyone against Hilary Clinton and created MAGAism. Trump sold his soul to Putin to get elected, or so the story goes.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Pointman

When this war started I remember googling an old English -language article saying that if Biden wins, there will be a major war in Ukraine. In retrospect it seems that US and Russia had been on a crash course for years.

What makes me sad about this is that it's been remarkably one-sided animosity.

The West has mostly been bending every which way they can and sacrificing every principle they have to make nice with Putins Russia, even when Russia has been openly attempting to destabilize countries in the west.

This whole conflict is so incredibly unnecessary, if only Russia hadn't ended up with such a dinosaur in charge, at least not for so long.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I had the most amazing experience today and this seems like the place to share it.

Some of you know that when I was a teenager both my (now) wife and myself took a summer volunteer trip to Ukraine. We were mostly working with kids in a rural area, and it absolutely rips me apart that the 3-5 year olds I spent the summer reading to and playing games with are now almost certainly all engaged in a brutal war for survival. I'm often on CP late at night now because I can't sleep thinking about it.

A bunch of us were billeted with an amazing family in this little village. They took care of us, fed us, and were just wonderful hosts. Today, my wife got a whats app message (kind of a friend-of-a-friend thing) that someone was looking for winter clothing for some Ukrainian refugees who have kids a bit younger than ours, and did we have any extras/hand-me-downs that would suit. As the conversation progressed, she found out some information about the family.

It turns out that the family who billeted us in Ukraine ~20 years ago has fled the country. The parents, their two children, the children's spouses, and the grandchildren are all living temporarily with a family IN CALGARY. I have no idea what the odds of this are, it seems astronomical to me. Obviously we'll be doing the winter clothes and more, and we haven't made it down to see them yet as we just found out today. I'm sort of in shock and am a bit unsure of exactly what to do next, but had to share it somewhere and this thread seemed like a reasonable place.

I'm fairly certain at some point in the next year or so I will be asked if I can take in a Ukrainian kid, it tends to be the arc of fostering, I got a great lad from Honduras at the height of the Central American migrant crisis, he's a landscaper out in Surrey now

[Itse]

Anytime I see clips from Russian TV, it just makes me feel a deep hopelessness.

Even with the differing views, this whole discussion is happening in such a deep, dark place filled with misinformation, hatred and lack of understanding of the outside world that I don't see how any real peace is possible.

Russians will never know peace without sweeping aside the current regime and their lackeys.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1569211778671984640

There's just no shared ground with anyone outside Russia, no basis from which to build a genuine, lasting peace.

At least they're admitting they're in war.

[foshizzle11]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

I had the most amazing experience today and this seems like the place to share it.

Some of you know that when I was a teenager both my (now) wife and myself took a summer volunteer trip to Ukraine. We were mostly working with kids in a rural area, and it absolutely rips me apart that the 3-5 year olds I spent the summer reading to and playing games with are now almost certainly all engaged in a brutal war for survival. I'm often on CP late at night now because I can't sleep thinking about it.

A bunch of us were billeted with an amazing family in this little village. They took care of us, fed us, and were just wonderful hosts. Today, my wife got a whats app message (kind of a friend-of-a-friend thing) that someone was looking for winter clothing for some Ukrainian refugees who have kids a bit younger than ours, and did we have any extras/hand-me-downs that would suit. As the conversation progressed, she found out some information about the family.

It turns out that the family who billeted us in Ukraine ~20 years ago has fled the country. The parents, their two children, the children's spouses, and the grandchildren are all living temporarily with a family IN CALGARY. I have no idea what the odds of this are, it seems astronomical to me. Obviously we'll be doing the winter clothes and more, and we haven't made it down to see them yet as we just found out today. I'm sort of in shock and am a bit unsure of exactly what to do next, but had to share it somewhere and this thread seemed like a reasonable place.

Unreal odds for sure! Maybe we can help donate as well. Any chance we can pitch in too?

[Pointman]

Large explosions in several towns in Russia proper (not Crimea) are being reported.

[Fuzz]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1569243867215728640

Haha! Run, you fools!

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

When this war is over, will people remember how much the USA and UK helped Ukraine?
Will they remember how pathetic France, Germany, Italy, and Japan were in their aid?

You’re overlooking the price average Europeans are paying to sustain the sanctions against Russia. The average American has sacrificed little or nothing to support Ukraine. If they had to pay what Europeans will be spending this winter to heat their homes, there would be riots.

[White Out 403]

Originally Posted by Itse

Anytime I see clips from Russian TV, it just makes me feel a deep hopelessness.

Even with the differing views, this whole discussion is happening in such a deep, dark place filled with misinformation, hatred and lack of understanding of the outside world that I don't see how any real peace is possible.

Russians will never know peace without sweeping aside the current regime and their lackeys.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1569211778671984640

There's just no shared ground with anyone outside Russia, no basis from which to build a genuine, lasting peace.

At least they're admitting they're in war.

a lot of really dumb commentary there, but, perhaps the most tone deaf and ignore #### I heard/read was one guy said they should talk to Ukrainians and not deny their identity. The host I think said back "we should talk to them while they shoot at us?"

Pretty unreal stuff. Yah man, the people you're invading and calling nazis and trying to ethnically cleanse are shooting back at you. Surprising I know.

Russian chauvinism is real. These people are awful.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by Itse

Anytime I see clips from Russian TV, it just makes me feel a deep hopelessness.

Even with the differing views, this whole discussion is happening in such a deep, dark place filled with misinformation, hatred and lack of understanding of the outside world that I don't see how any real peace is possible.

Russians will never know peace without sweeping aside the current regime and their lackeys.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1569211778671984640

There's just no shared ground with anyone outside Russia, no basis from which to build a genuine, lasting peace.

At least they're admitting they're in war.

I felt like at certain points during that conversation, people had the look of "wow we are all idiots, aren't we?"

I'm surprised they let dissenting opinions on TV like that from glasses guy, and the one analyst. They've basically said the war is lost, get out and try a new Russification strategy.