Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Muta

You may not believe it, but I don't think the NDP are amazing. In fact, I have several serious reservations with them. That said, I have way, way more problems with the UCP and how they govern, and given the fact that we've let conservatives #### up and we've forgiven (ignored?) them for 40+ years, I'm completely open to giving the NDP a second chance - they deserve it. By the time they left office in 2019, the NDP were governing this province just fine.

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

People don’t think the NDP were amazing, people think the NDP were competent. Mostly when compared to other provincial governments and especially when compared to the UCP.

I truly don’t understand what is hard to understand about that. We live in a province where there are two viable options. People make posts saying one option is better than the other, and you chime in with “well they’re not perfect actually and not amazing!” Like… sure, but why do you take any praise of the NDP, especially given the comparison to our current government, as people lauding over their incredibleness? Why is praising the NDP at all offensive to you, and why do then just bail out of every conversation accusing it of being some “whole thing” or whatever instead of just offering up anything else?

You guys aren’t doing Alberta politics properly. Dig in, pick a side. Ride or die.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'm just pulling out of this discussion. We've been over it a million times and everyone here thinks that the NDP were amazing. I'm fine with just agreeing and saying I'm wrong because I don't want to bother with this whole exercise.

I think the lesson here is that if you are going to play devil's advocate, make sure the devil you choose actually has something to advocate for. Otherwise you run out of rope pretty quick and end up looking a bit daft.

[Ozy_Flame]

On somewhat smaller news, The Alberta Party disqualified Shaolin Wang from running as a candidate because of past ridiculous comments he said on social media (anti-vax, freedom, etc.). He also ran as a mayoral candidate for Calgary in 2021.

I don't understand how he got through the initial vetting process, but at least they did the right thing and pulled the rug out from under him. The UCP and CPC could take some cues from that.

[TheIronMaiden]

Both parties are going to spend like drunken welders. both parties are going to hammer on inconsequential wedge issues. Both parties are going to do lame gotcha moral grand standing. Both parties budget will sink and swim based on O&G economy.

That said, I think that the majority of Albertans see the value in strong public health and education systems, and think that this is the responsibility of the government.

I don't think the UCP believes that

I do think the NDP believes that.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'm just pulling out of this discussion. We've been over it a million times and everyone here thinks that the NDP were amazing. I'm fine with just agreeing and saying I'm wrong because I don't want to bother with this whole exercise.

Everyone else is the problem, eh Slava?

If you didn’t choose to make stuff up in the process people might actually buy-in to your attempt to play the victim.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

I don't understand how he got through the initial vetting process,

Because the Alberta Party is incompetent. Always have been. Under an affable and level headed guy like Clark it hid what was going on behind the scenes, but the reality is that they’re a joke of a party but we were/are so enamoured with the idea of the Alberta Party that they get a pass and treated like a real party.

[AFireInside]

Originally Posted by Slava

It’s exactly this kind of thing. The government can trim fat in plenty of other areas to add money to healthcare and education. Instead of running around doing pressers giving taxpayer money to private businesses, put it into public services. If (and that’s a big IF), they do things that way and need more money, fine raise the corporate tax rate.

To me, it comes down to prioritizing health and education as the main services delivered by the province.

They can do both. The UCP lowered the corp tax rate for no reason, so it isn't increasing the corp tax rate, it's going back to where it was. It wasn't in a range that was problematic at all. We just gave away money for no reason. It didn't create anything. We got very lucky that oil prices rebounded the way they did.

I don't love the NDP, but they were at least reasonable who did an alright job.

I don't care where anyone sits on the political spectrum, there's no way to look at the UCP as anything other than an absolute joke.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by AFireInside

They can do both. The UCP lowered the corp tax rate for no reason, so it isn't increasing the corp tax rate, it's going back to where it was. It wasn't in a range that was problematic at all. We just gave away money for no reason. It didn't create anything. We got very lucky that oil prices rebounded the way they did.

I don't love the NDP, but they were at least reasonable who did an alright job.

I don't care where anyone sits on the political spectrum, there's no way to look at the UCP as anything other than an absolute joke.

Yes fiscal mess aside, how many NDP ministers broke into the public health databases, violating the law, to figure out the identity of someone's social media post he didn't like, so he could yell at them w/ his wife on their driveway?

That was just the tip of the scandal iceberg.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Because the Alberta Party is incompetent. Always have been. Under an affable and level headed guy like Clark it hid what was going on behind the scenes, but the reality is that they’re a joke of a party but we were/are so enamoured with the idea of the Alberta Party that they get a pass and treated like a real party.

Fair comment. They haven't seemed like a reasonable party or an interesting one since Greg Clark was around.

[woob]

Slava, we don't think the NDP are amazing, but they did two things which appeal to me as a voter:

1. Governing wise and budget wise, they were decent when you look at the whole 4 year term. They weren't a shining beacon of light, but they also weren't as bad as some seem to think they were. If you're going to say the only reason why they weren't a complete trainwreck is because "energy came back" (which I don't agree with, but I'll agree for the sake of argument), that's like every AB government ever. It's part of the reason why so many of us push for a PST; to try and even out the rollercoaster, and use the "energy came back" moments to plan for the future.

2. They clearly exhibited a willingness to learn and evolve while in power. This is why I'll continue to vote for them. I wish the UCP would do that. I wish the Federal Liberals would do that. I wish the Federal Conservatives would do that as the opposition.

[Looch City]

Well that’s the end of that conversation, let’s pickup it up again in a couple weeks and repeat the exact same things!

Lol I truly hope that by May enough people in Berta see it same way as you Woob…

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Torture

Anywho, I'm surprised this hasn't gotten more traction here, or are we just so used to Smith and the UCP lying about anything and everything that we don't care that Calgary essentially got shut out in the budget?



Oh, and Gondek provided a copy of the whole letter.

Guess that wasn't clear enough though.


TLDR, Smith lies, here's a tweet

https://twitter.com/user/status/1633215710901202946

I thought the UCP was going to try and bribe Calgary voters. perhaps I was wrong.
Maybe the UCP figures they have it all wrapped up in Calgary, and instead are wooing Edmonton in an attempt to get a few seats.

[Torture]

Okay, so let's accept Slava's point and agree both parties are bad with money.
Would you rather the party that is bad with money but is seemingly trying do the right thing and cares about Alberta, or the party that is bad with money and giving it away to their closest friends and lobbyists while catering to and encouraging the grossest far right segments of society?

That said, I'd argue that the NDP of 2023 is not the NDP of 2015, they have a much stronger slate of candidates if they were to form government. Their Calgary candidates are former energy economists, lawyers, and individuals with years of experience in their field, not the shop stewards, new grads, and union heads of the past.
Frankly, they didn't have the bench strength and weren't really ready to form government in 2015, but that's what you get when another party has been in power for 40+ years. But today, if they painted themselves blue you would have a hard time telling half their candidates apart from past Progressive Conservative Governments.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Torture

Okay, so let's accept Slava's point and agree both parties are bad with money.

Would you rather the party that is bad with money but is seemingly trying do the right thing and cares about Alberta, or the party that is bad with money and giving it away to their closest friends and lobbyists while catering to and encouraging the grossest far right segments of society?

Also, I'd argue that the NDP of 2023 is not the NDP of 2015, they have a much stronger slate of candidates if they were to form government. Their Calgary candidates are former energy economists, lawyers, etc, not the shop stewards and union heads of the past.
Frankly, if they painted themselves blue you would have a hard time telling them apart from past Progressive Conservative Governments.

That's something I really wish more people would understand. If you were a fan of Peter Lougheed types, the UCP is not the party for you, the NDP is

[DFO]

It's mind numbing how folks hold the NDP to this incredibly high, and frankly unattainable, standard and are seemingly ok with the huge body of crappy performance by the PC's or UCP. I can't wrap my head around the discrepancy in standards.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by DFO

It's mind numbing how folks hold the NDP to this incredibly high, and frankly unattainable, standard and are seemingly ok with the huge body of crappy performance by the PC's or UCP. I can't wrap my head around the discrepancy in standards.

I wouldn't overthink this. It's Alberta.

[Muta]

Every time I've told people that Notley's brand of politics is akin to the Lougheed brand of politics, a system and leader that were revered in Alberta for many years, conservatives shrink away and don't want to have that convo. They either don't want to listen or have some kind of glitch in the matrix that renders further discussion dead.

[Mr.Coffee]

If the NDP stated they’d implement a PST, I actually wonder if that would help them get elected.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by Muta

Every time I've told people that Notley's brand of politics is akin to the Lougheed brand of politics, a system and leader that were revered in Alberta for many years, conservatives shrink away and don't want to have that convo. They either don't want to listen or have some kind of glitch in the matrix that renders further discussion dead.

Same with the Republicans deifying Reagan. If you point out to them that he signed gun control reforms as governor or raised taxes as president (to save Social Security no less) they short circuit

[Yikes]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

If the NDP stated they’d implement a PST, I actually wonder if that would help them get elected.

I think that would depend on what they present as a revenue/allocation "plan" over their term and of course it they stick to the "plan" (or even remotely close).