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Old 07-04-2025, 06:29 PM   #701
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that might be what he's telling buffalo but he might bring that down once he's traded to a competent organization.
Yes, that's his starting point which every player starts higher than they are going to sign for. It probably ends up around 8 which for a young highly skilled offensive D man is probably about right
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Old 07-04-2025, 06:30 PM   #702
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We agree there
Again I was reacting to the notion that the Flames owners need only tolerate two years of being out of the playoffs
They are already at 3
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Old 07-04-2025, 06:32 PM   #703
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The Sabres are far from the only example
That is mismanagement though. They had a number 1 center in Eichel. They had a number 1 winger in Reinhart.

They had a great goalie in Ullmark. If you take their current d core and add Montour who left, it is one of the better defensive lineups in the league.

Horrible mismanagement of assets.
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Old 07-04-2025, 06:38 PM   #704
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As soon as I heard that Byram was asking for 9/M over 8.

/thread
The only way I’d be interested is if Huberdeau was going the other way as the only part going the other way.
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Old 07-04-2025, 06:43 PM   #705
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I’d do Sharangovich or Farabee to get out of those awful contracts. Plus 28 2nd and Maceo Phillips.
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Old 07-04-2025, 06:45 PM   #706
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Same question. How are they “doing the same thing over and over again”?
I understand that they've traded vets away. Keeping in mind - they are the vets that didn't want to resign at the right price for the Flames. We were very close to having a 30 yr old Lindholm at 8.5-9MM with 7 yrs left.

The same thing comment is their temptation to sneak into the playoffs and not sell off. Vladar/Hanley may not have returned much, but the prices flying around at the last deadline and hearing that Conroy did not even entertain Kadri or Ras deals is telling.
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Old 07-04-2025, 06:48 PM   #707
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I’d do Sharangovich or Farabee to get out of those awful contracts. Plus 28 2nd and Maceo Phillips.
I’m not sure those additional assets get teams to take Farabee or Shags for nothing . Negative assets
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Old 07-04-2025, 06:49 PM   #708
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I think Warrener hit the nail on the head on BB. The phrasing he used to describe a non-egregious tank: A "Dignified Tank".

I think that's what Calgary was after last season. They just got on a roll and exceeded expectations.

This season, Conroy doesn't seem to be doubling-down on last season (at least so far). Rasmus is likely going to be traded for a rumored "futures package". That isn't helping the team today. He didn't sign any vets really. He didn't make this team better this season.

I think that's still the plan. What Conroy doesn't want is an environment where you tell the kids it is ok to lose, as he feels it is unfair to then ask them to flip the switch. I mostly agree with that, but there are plenty of cases that show this to not be that big of a worry. Burke pointed at Colorado for egregiously tanking and forcing the NHL to change the lottery rules. Remember Giguere complaining about the terrible culture there? They go on to win a cup.

What about Chicago? That rebuild is going terribly. They have been rebuilding since 2018!! That's already 7 seasons!!

You make that statement if you are lazy and assume just because a team misses the playoffs, that this is year 1 of a rebuild. Dig deeper.

Chicago WANTED to rebuild, but players with full NMCs refused to leave and compete. Remember what Toews did? Kane wasn't traded out until 2022-23 deadline. They traded some players the off-season before that, but they literally had their hands tied trying to still compete without anything in the pipeline.

What about Buffalo? What about them? They tried to compete for too long when it was obvious they didn't have the horses. Then they did an egregious rebuild the likes we haven't seen since Pittsburgh tanked for Lemieux. Then they tried to flip the switch, so they go and sign guys like Skinner to bloated deals? Hire piss-poor GMs and coaches? Surprise that a badly managed team was unable to find success before the rebuild, or since the rebuild.. but it has to be because of the rebuild, right? Let they forever be a warning to any other team who thinks about rebuilding. Heck, they bitched and whined about not winning the lottery in public, pissing off their new franchise player that every other team would kill for - Eichel - then they forced him to have a medical procedure he didn't want. Don't point at them as a model of what a tank is - they are just the model for a badly run organization, full-stop. They were bad before the rebuild, they remain bad now.

Want to have a successful rebuild?
  1. You better have your drafting and development org sorted. (Check!)
  2. You better have a good teaching coaching staff (Check!)
  3. You better have some decent vets kicking around (Check!)
  4. You better draft a handful of stars as you bottom out (not yet completed)
  5. You better have some good depth in the pipeline before the rebuild starts (check)
Flames are just missing those high franchise picks to add to Wolf, and Parekh. No, Coronato is not a core piece, nor is Zary. Yes, they may develop into one. As can a handful of other players - and I hope they do. What they do have is a lot of depth. They probably have another star or two in the organization (maybe it is Coronato or someone else mentioned, maybe some others). What the Flames do not have is are blue-chip core pieces to build around Wolf and Parekh at this point. Draft some that project to be those, hopefully you develop well enough that some of your already drafted players become those, and away you go.



Teams suck at rebuilding because they are bad organizations. It is like we learned nothing from Chicago. Bad owner who was constantly rebuilding had Chicago being a terrible team for many, many, many years. He dies, son takes over, a real rebuild happens, and they build a dynasty. "But they haven't been in the playoffs since 2018!!", ignoring the facts as stated above.



Interesting circumstances:

What a complete waste of an opportunity not to bottom out this year - and maybe next year. Not only are there two glorious franchise-altering players available in the next two drafts, but all of the teams that bottomed-out are trying to improve, including Chicago (which will be better, but likely last still). Imagine bottoming-out through the years including 2019 when there were a handful of teams were bad, and the draft had: Hughes, Kakko, Dach, Byram, Turcotte, Seider, Cozens, Borberg, Zegras as the top 10. Sure, some good players there, but that's awful. Teams won't need to bottom-out nearly as far down (at least as of now) to get a top 3 pick. Everyone is improving.



I just don't think the plan is really playoffs, any more than it was playoffs when Feaster called it after Iginla and Bouwmeester were both traded. Flames in 2015 banded together and exceeded expectations, just as the 2025 Flames banded together and exceeded expectations. They fell back down to earth and drafted Tkachuk the year after that, even after acquiring Hamilton. That was a better team then than this team is now, and I don't think Conroy is an idiot at all.



He didn't add to the group at the deadline, and he hasn't added to the group thus far in free agency. I believe this to be a dignified tank. I guess we will see if it is or not (or what Conroy does or not).
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Old 07-04-2025, 06:49 PM   #709
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The problem is that actually sends a bad message to the young players that are there. Look how competitive Wolf was down the stretch, he wanted nothing more than to make the playoffs and even the coaching staff mentioned he was way more vocal and a leader down the stretch.

IMO You can't go scorched earth mid-season once the players already battled hard to get into a playoff race and defyed expectations.

It's why the ideal time to trade Andersson for maximum return would have been before last season, but you need to get it done for sure this offseason and can't let it drag into the season.

It's also why I'd say the ideal time to move a piece like Coleman should have been this offseason but do think he's the type of player you can move next deadline too.

Pieces like Huberdeau and Kadri are tougher because I don't think they want to leave and have full NMCs or are potentially untradeable (in Huberdeau's case).

For the most part Conroy has tried to tank. He's traded Lindholm, Hanifin, Tanev, Markstrom, Zadorov, Mangiapane, and Toffoli for predominantly futures based returns.

He seems to be in the process of moving out Andersson and maybe Coleman.

He's signed no major UFAs and was a bottom 5 cap team last season and likely will be again this upcoming season.

If he's trying hard to compete he has a weird way of showing it. What I think he's trying to do is manage assets and accumulate as many assets as possible...and whatever the outcome of the season is he doesn't have direct control over that.
That’s all great but the problem is by the time they do move on they are past the point of maximizing the return on most of their assets.. Having multiple picks is great but we could have had a lot more if ownership would have the foresight to move on quicker.
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Old 07-04-2025, 06:49 PM   #710
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I’d do Sharangovich or Farabee to get out of those awful contracts. Plus 28 2nd and Maceo Phillips.
I don't think you would trade them after a down year. I think Sharongivich especially could bounce back big time.

I believe Conroy mentioned he was rushed back from injury and never fully recovered. He should be better with a full off season.
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Old 07-04-2025, 06:50 PM   #711
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I understand that they've traded vets away. Keeping in mind - they are the vets that didn't want to resign at the right price for the Flames. We were very close to having a 30 yr old Lindholm at 8.5-9MM with 7 yrs left.

The same thing comment is their temptation to sneak into the playoffs and not sell off. Vladar/Hanley may not have returned much, but the prices flying around at the last deadline and hearing that Conroy did not even entertain Kadri or Ras deals is telling.
How long are we going to criticize them for things they may have been considering but didn’t actually do? (Lindholm)
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Old 07-04-2025, 06:51 PM   #712
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They are already at 3
That's the thing about a lot of teams that tank. They almost always miss the playoffs a few times in a row before they finally pull the plug, which should be obvious because why would a playoff team pull the plug. The length of a playoff drought doesn't correlate directly to when a team purposely tears it down.
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Old 07-04-2025, 06:51 PM   #713
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Trading every single veteran is just plain dumb, very very dumb, full stop. Conroy has traded 7 veterans and received picks and prospects for them. Somehow that is an effort in your mind to finish as bubble team. The teams that gas all their veterans almost always suck for a very long time. They then end up signing veterans like Klingberg or trading for vets like Trouba and Kreider just to find out they still suck and they have ruined multiple top 10 picks because of no veteran presence.
Trading Andersson and Coleman isn’t trading everyone. You maximize your assets and get the best returns to help your team when it’s ready to compete. Holding in to them so you can clap at a 9th place finish is dumb the dumbest way to handle things full stop.

You add the vets when you are ready to compete.
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Old 07-04-2025, 06:52 PM   #714
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I’d do Sharangovich or Farabee to get out of those awful contracts. Plus 28 2nd and Maceo Phillips.
Farabee contract is not a problem really for the Flames. Only three years left.

Sharangovich likely isn’t a big problem either, but I would definitely like a do over on that signing.
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Old 07-04-2025, 06:53 PM   #715
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How long are we going to criticize them for things they may have been considering but didn’t actually do? (Lindholm)
I think it's a fair criticism. I am still stunned they offered Lindholm anything at all, and that should never have been part of any plan.
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Old 07-04-2025, 06:56 PM   #716
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I think it's a fair criticism. I am still stunned they offered Lindholm anything at all, and that should never have been part of any plan.
Ok so we will continue to hear about it for years even though it didn’t happen
Great
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Old 07-04-2025, 06:58 PM   #717
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I think it's a fair criticism. I am still stunned they offered Lindholm anything at all, and that should never have been part of any plan.
They offered Lindholm a contract they knew he wasn’t going to sign in the hopes the core clicked and they could circle back or he’d have trade value on it. They pulled any offer when it was clear it wasn’t working.
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Old 07-04-2025, 07:01 PM   #718
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Farabee contract is not a problem really for the Flames. Only three years left.

Sharangovich likely isn’t a big problem either, but I would definitely like a do over on that signing.
But it seems like Buffalo wants now players. Both of them fill that need and getting out of one of those deals would be beneficial. But sure if they have trade protection.

I still don’t get how people see Coleman in Farabee. He looks so small and soft. Coleman is a gritty winger who goes to the dirty areas.
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Old 07-04-2025, 07:01 PM   #719
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Ok so we will continue to hear about it for years even though it didn’t happen
Great
I mean, it is a fair criticism. I don't know why it would bother you that people bring it up.

Asking every player if they will re sign, and making your decision based on if the player says yes or no, is very reactionary.

I am hoping for a more well thought out long term plan than giving complete power to the players.
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Old 07-04-2025, 07:02 PM   #720
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How long are we going to criticize them for things they may have been considering but didn’t actually do? (Lindholm)
Intent to murder is still a crime.

I dont think this is much different than the Ryan OReilly offer sheet from Feaster or the Brad Richards contract offer. We were saved from ourselves.

Critism will stop when it's obvious that the lesson has been learned.
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