[Trade] Markstrom (31.25% retained) traded to NJ for 2025 1st (top 10 protected) and Bahl

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by dgibb10

Yep and he was much closer to the fleury price than the schneider price.

37th overall is the estimated cost of 4 mill. That more than cancels out Bahl.

And a 2025 1st (minus slightly) is actually significantly closer in value to nothing (Fleury) than it is a top 10 pick.

Anyway, enjoy Mercer, Holtz, Top 10 pick, and not having to retain. Oh wait

Unless the 2025 1st is 11th overall

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by shutout

The media at the Athletic does not have a very positive view on the work that the Flames GM has done this year.

Because a lot of pundits mistake the speculation thrown around by other pundits as ‘the market.’

But as my old economics teacher said, the only way of determining the value of something is what a buyer actually pays for it. Anything else is imaginary.

[dgibb10]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

a 2025 1st is closer to nothing than a top 10 pick, so it might as well be nothing. great logic mate

Except that's not what I said.

I said he's closer to fleury than schneider, which he was.

No Mercer, no Holtz, no top 10 pick.

But now I'm sure it's time to vastly overrate kevin bahl from where you all had him 12 hours ago.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by MrButtons

Not sure if it's been shared yet but unsurprisingly, the Athletic thinks the flames got scammed. Won't share the commentary but here are the grades:

Devils grade: A
Flames grade: D-plus

Devils grade: A
Flames grade: C-minus

Devils grade: A
Flames grade: B-minus

They all must have had the McDavid only closeup camera angles in the 2022 playoffs.

[powderjunkie]

Do people not like this trade? Positive assets for the last years of a UFA deal of a guy in his 30s...who had a friggin NMC.

[St. Pats]

I thought all along this was an addition by subtraction trade. Markstrom gone way more important than the return. Starting goalie gone. Starting defensemen gone. Useless forwards retained. The rebuild got a major boost.

[Johnny Makarov]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

I don't have a very positive view on the work of the Athletic.

What was once a really good publication has been watered down to a tire fire with incredibly stupid takes.

Who doesn't consider the Lindholm trade as a clear W for Conroy?

Scorp.... lol!

[activeStick]

Originally Posted by DoubleK

Would have preferred to keep Bahl and have moved Holtz.

The big question is if 2025 1st and Bahl is all it took to get Markstrom and retention, why didn't this get done at the TDL?

That's a total headscratcher for me.

My guess is that Fitzgerald was not willing to give up a 1st (protected or not) for a 34 year old goaltender and Conroy wasn't going to even consider anything without a 1st to start. To me, this makes the most sense.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by St. Pats

I thought all along this was an addition by subtraction trade. Markstrom gone way more important than the return. Starting goalie gone. Starting defensemen gone. Useless forwards retained. The rebuild got a major boost.

This almost certainly turns the Flames from an 8-14 type finish next year to a bottom 5. From a rebuild perspective this is exactly what they need.

[R2theJ]

Originally Posted by SemicolonD

Another thing is Conroys continued emphasis and belief in the flames pro scouting, Conroy could legitimately value Bahl more than Holtz and no one would dare give this trade anything below an A if it was 2025 pick and Holtz, these pundits just want a sexy name and Bahl isn’t that.

If Bahl turns into 75% of what Regehr was then this is a homerun for the Flames. The 10OA for an old goalie was a pipe dream... tidy work from Conny!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Then go ahead trade Coleman if you think he’s worth that. You can find a vet to replace him later if you really think it’s necessary.

And let’s be honest, it never works like you’re describing. Sign an equivalent or better player for cheaper money and then trade the older more expensive guy for a return.

Fair. If Debrusk is better, why wouldn't whoever you were talking to about Coleman just sign Debrusk instead themselves.

Now in reality, Coleman is a different player altogether and maybe better at the end of the day. And obviously useful to a contender - he's proven that.

Debrusk I see as a guy who fans might like and would be a stopgap "name" player while the Flames rebuild.

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally Posted by devo22

Conroy won his very first trade as a GM, so yeah ... dumb take is dumb.

It's also stupid to judge trades in today's NHL without accounting for cap space free'd up and the futures that haven't been used yet.

That guy seems to be evaluating trades like he's playing NHL 98 and only who got the best player(current) in the trade matters.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

It's also stupid to judge trades in today's NHL without accounting for cap space free'd up and the futures that haven't been used yet.

That guy seems to be evaluating trades like he's playing NHL 98 and only who got the best player(current) in the trade matters.

That's my take.

IIRC The Athletic even admitted they were wrong months later (about the Toffoli trade) but maybe it wasn't this guy.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by devo22

Conroy won his very first trade as a GM, so yeah ... dumb take is dumb.

He traded a guy who got 55 points last year for a guy who got 59 points and he got a third added and he has not won a trade

[dgibb10]

Originally Posted by SemicolonD

Another thing is Conroys continued emphasis and belief in the flames pro scouting, Conroy could legitimately value Bahl more than Holtz and no one would dare give this trade anything below an A if it was 2025 pick and Holtz, these pundits just want a sexy name and Bahl isn’t that.

Yes if the flames got a significantly more valuable asset they would have gotten a better grade.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by D as in David

Plus cap space that could be weaponized.

Yep. Honestly, with Flames basically needing to finish bottom 10 next year to keep their 2025 1st, I'm more than happy to be a team where cap-strapped clubs can unload a bad contract the final couple years in return for picks/prospects, like what Habs did for/to us with Monahan. Short-term pain for long-term gain.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That's my take.

IIRC The Athletic even admitted they were wrong months later (about the Toffoli trade) but maybe it wasn't this guy.

Flames got a young guy and a first round draft pick, I think that's solid.

We are not going to hit home runs every time have to go with what the markets offering. Flames got younger and I got a first round draft pick I think that's excellent. Who knows maybe next year NJ does well but the year after they crash.

I think that's a good risk with a first that's unprotected. Conroy may still have some options to try to get more firsts over the next couple years. I think people have to look at the long game a little bit .

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That's my take.

IIRC The Athletic even admitted they were wrong months later (about the Toffoli trade) but maybe it wasn't this guy.

Flames got a young guy and a first round draft pick, I think that's solid.

We are not going to hit home runs every time, have to go with what the markets offering. Flames got younger and got a first round draft pick I think that's excellent. Who knows maybe next year NJ does well but the year after they crash.

I think that's a good risk with a first that's unprotected. Conroy may still have some options to try to get more firsts over the next couple years. I think people have to look at the long game a little bit .

[Braden]

Originally Posted by dgibb10

Except that's not what I said.

I said he's closer to fleury than schneider, which he was.

Umm that's exactly what you said..

[Bandwagon Surfer]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

You honestly don’t see a difference in how Markstrom’s value was estimated around here a week ago vs post-trade? Go back and read the thread.

It happens all the time with trades here.

I think you are seeing a totally different effect.

Threads on forums go through lifecycles:

1. When there is new information you get more active discussions with a large number and wide variety of people involved. At these points you will get a better idea of what the general thoughts of the community are.
2. When no new information has been available for a while, most people drop off leaving only a few stragglers dominating the conversation. This tends to be bored people making up ever more absurd and fanciful rumors on top of rumors, and well as loons with some weird take that they have decided is the hill they die on.

A week ago this had been discussed to death with no new information other than that something was still happening. Only the extremes were posting about it then, resulting in off the wall opinions dominating the discussion. Now there is news and we have more of the wider audience engaged, resulting in much more normal opinions in the conversation.

Different people having different takes seems normal to me. Extreme takes being wrong also seems pretty normal to me too.