[News] Calgary, Alberta, & CSEC agree in principle to $1.223bn Event Centre + infrastructure

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Bonded

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...deal-1.5227897
It's more balanced than saying it was a great success

That's the one I read. It does kind of tell both sides. That was also 4 years ago and I think before everything was fully open. It would be nice to know the pros and cons now a few years later.

I wish a reporter would have asked Danielle Smith more about that statement she made and if they have data to back it up.

[Parallex]

This is the ####ing Edmonton deal 2.0... I will not vote for any politician that supports this hideous monstrosity.

[Rutuu]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Edwards is no dummy. Is it a surprise to anyone that a billionaire businessman took two politicians to the woodshed?

He didn't take the politicians to the woodshed...he took YOU to the woodshed. The politicians are merely trying to buy your votes, which they will have done successfully.

So they both win...and YOU lose...but think you won.

Win - win - win?

[Muta]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

Stampede Trail and 14th Ave are where all the action and cool stuff will be. The train station better be connected to the event centre by a nice, big tunnel walkway. If there is no tunnel the project is a failure. If they want to do something cool/interesting they can build a little plaza under there with some shopping/dining options.

While a tunnel / retail mall would definitely be nice (especially in the winter; I've used them in Sapporo), an at-grade civic intervention would be just as impactful and beautiful; there's lots of precedent around for these types of green urban interventions too.

[bluejays]

As a Torontonian, I'm happy for the city. It's Canada's national sport (unofficially). It's important to have a state of the art arena. Just as important is the design though. That last one was so bland. I really hope they put more money into a unique design that will hold up over time. What were they thinking with that second rate last design?

[topfiverecords]

If my math is correct, after 35 years $703,768,804 will be paid by CSEC to CoC in lease payments.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Parallex

This is the ####ing Edmonton deal 2.0... I will not vote for any politician that supports this hideous monstrosity.

NDP will pour even more money in.

[iggyloob12]

Originally Posted by Parallex

This is the ####ing Edmonton deal 2.0... I will not vote for any politician that supports this hideous monstrosity.

The Edmonton deal had no provincial dollars. Two PC premiers declined to chip in. I guess fiscal conservatism is dead.

[Infinit47]

I fully believe this most the government should fund of an arena is 50%, and that is a stretch.

This deal has turned into a massive project, and until we know the exact details of what is being built, and how CSEC is funding their share, I will reserve judgement. There is a chance I could like this deal, but I think it's a slim one.

I will say I am fine with the City spending money to make our city better, even if my property taxes go up. What I'm not fine with is the city going into austerity mode and skimping in other areas to get this deal done.

It takes money to make a city great, and with the BMO expansion and this new deal there is a chance to make this an amazing area...let's not screw it up.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Muta

While a tunnel / retail mall would definitely be nice (especially in the winter; I've used them in Sapporo), an at-grade civic intervention would be just as impactful and beautiful; there's lots of precedent around for these types of green urban interventions too.

I don't disagree with the idea I just see very little value/benefit in a block or two on what might be the backside of the building. The main area is adjacent to the BMO, Stampede Grounds and Cowboys so that will be the focus. A great connection point between the build and train is critical here for many reasons. I've been to Seoul, SK and the underground city there is amazing and the subway plazas are great places to hang out.

[kermitology]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

If my math is correct, after 35 years $703,768,804 will be paid by CSEC to CoC in lease payments.

I don’t think your math is correct.

All I’ll say is that I’m happy I’m no longer an Alberta/Calgary taxpayer.

Woof, this deal is brutal. Corporate socialism is alive and well.

[iggyloob12]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1650978365145247746

There’s a Smith video for everything. Here she decries “corporate welfare” while opposing provincial funding for Edmonton’s arena.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I don't disagree with the idea I just see very little value/benefit in a block or two on what might be the backside of the building. The main area is adjacent to the BMO, Stampede Grounds and Cowboys so that will be the focus. A great connection point between the build and train is critical here for many reasons. I've been to Seoul, SK and the underground city there is amazing and the subway plazas are great places to hang out.

Right, but the cost for building an underground network may be prohibitive. At-grade is much more doable; it depends what the Rivers District Master Plan suggests, as well as the potential opportunity cost of the real estate in question. It also depends if there's a palette for this type of project from the direct stakeholders - and I really hope there is.

I do agree an underground connection would be ideal, I just don't see it happening.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by kermitology

I don’t think your math is correct.

All I’ll say is that I’m happy I’m no longer an Alberta/Calgary taxpayer.

Woof, this deal is brutal. Corporate socialism is alive and well.

Show me where it’s incorrect.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Shazam

NDP will pour even more money in.

Why?

[GullFoss]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

If my math is correct, after 35 years $703,768,804 will be paid by CSEC to CoC in lease payments.

The city is likely going to debt finance CSECs portion, so most of this extra money is just a pass through. CSEC pays interest to the city and the city pays it to their lender

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by topfiverecords

If my math is correct, after 35 years $703,768,804 will be paid by CSEC to CoC in lease payments.

Your math is close, it is actually a little light but the discounted value is 316 million

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Muta

Right, but the cost for building an underground network may be prohibitive. At-grade is much more doable; it depends what the Rivers District Master Plan suggests, as well as the potential opportunity cost of the real estate in question. It also depends if there's a palette for this type of project from the direct stakeholders - and I really hope there is.

I do agree an underground connection would be ideal, I just don't see it happening.

If they can't find the funds for a good underground connection between the station and event centre, just over a block, it is a major fail. Between the funds for the green line and the $1.2B for this project they should be able to make a stunning, flagship underground pavilion.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Murray should pay for the cleanup on some of his wells.

[DiracSpike]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Maybe I am just cynical, but tax dollars get wasted all the time on things that have no improvement on the lives of regular people. It will just get pissed away on other pet projects that people end up forgetting about. It's better to have one big bonfire than a bunch of little fires, at least once in a while. As long as they aren't slashing the budget on other things, and this project is on top of paying for municipal necessities, I say go for it.

Danielle Smith mentioned that the Edmonton entrainment district has already payed dividends that justify the use of public money. I came across one CBC article that said as of 2019, the entertainment district had already generated an additional $2 billion in economic activity downtown. It also gave a differing view saying that the additional economic activity was going to happen anyway and that they didn't need to build an entertainment district to do it. I wonder what the truth is... maybe somewhere in the middle as usual?

After Katz got the deal he did, I don't think the Flames owners were going to settle for less. The seal was kind of broken after that.

The usual crowd scoffed at that deal too at the time, but you’d be hard pressed to talk to anyone in Edmonton that regrets that deal now. Ditched their dumpy awful barn for a great new building that has completely revitalized their downtown and secured the future of their hockey team for decades. Most reasonable people will feel the same about this in time, certainly better than being stuck with a crumbling half century old building in an underdeveloped part of downtown and no NHL team all in the name of “sticking it to billionaires” or some such nonsense.