Francis: Treliving filled with disappointment, anger after team's collapse - Page 36 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

DeluxeMoustache · 04-09-2018, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotten42

you have very sensitive skin.

I think we are closed on this

GioforPM · 04-09-2018, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

Just a joke....come on...Brouwer on the powerplay was objectively stupid.

Still makes me chuckle.

What I object to is that narrative that GG wouldn't move off of Brouwer because of stubborness or something. It just doesn't meet the actual facts, the TOI records, etc.

BTW, was putting Bennett on objectively stupid? Look at his production and his time on the PP.

Who do you put in front of the net on the two powerplay units when Ferland gets hurt, and then, later, Tkachuk? Especially short term who might have actually practiced on the unit? It's not just a matter of throwing guys with no practice time and no experience out there to get punished. Is it Stajan? Lazar? I don't think that's a good role for Jankowski (who was struggling at the time anyway) and that's the best option I can think of.

Red · 04-09-2018, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Not fussed - the post completely ignored the points I was making, had no suggestions as to PP replacement players (just the usual "anyone would be better"), no comment on exactly what was inaccurate (since I can show the PP time stats, I know I'm right there), and just the "you must be related" type of comment that everyone knows is useless.

It's like posts from people who insist Brouwer was on the PP because GG insists on RH shots. Which (a) he doesn't for forwards; and (b) had nothing to do with Brouwer, who wasn't a PP shooter.

The point is that you have no point, but you feel the need to pipe in whenever anyone makes any negative comment about GG or Brouwer and correct people.
We dont need to be corrected. Especially with ridiculous justifications that you continue to manufacture.
A guy with 0 PP goals all year does not belong on a PP when 9 other forwards are siting on the bench,. End. Of. Story

Red · 04-09-2018, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

What I object to is that narrative that GG wouldn't move off of Brouwer because of stubborness or something. It just doesn't meet the actual facts, the TOI records, etc.

BTW, was putting Bennett on objectively stupid? Look at his production and his time on the PP.

Who do you put in front of the net on the two powerplay units when Ferland gets hurt, and then, later, Tkachuk? Especially short term who might have actually practiced on the unit? It's not just a matter of throwing guys with no practice time and no experience out there to get punished. Is it Stajan? Lazar? I don't think that's a good role for Jankowski (who was struggling at the time anyway) and that's the best option I can think of.

Brouwer is in the top 5 or 6 forwards in PP ice time.

oldschoolcalgary · 04-09-2018, 10:43 AM

while we're at it, another PP question:

not sure why it took so long for Cameron/GG to put Hamilton on the point either? iirc it took 2/3 of the season with a languishing powerplay before they thought having another DMan on the point might actually be a good idea?

i mean GG/Cameron know more about hockey than pretty much anyone on this forum, which is why it was so perplexing... esp when the PP got immediately better with that change.

I mean, putting a DMan on the point, that has a cannon of a shot, elite skater with great vision seems like a no brainer to this layman...

Textcritic · 04-09-2018, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red

Brouwer is in the top 5 or 6 forwards in PP ice time.

False. Brouwer ranks 10th among forwards and 14th overall in PP TOI/GP.

Locke · 04-09-2018, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

False. Brouwer ranks 10th among forwards and 14th overall in PP TOI/GP.

22 Points.

-7.

Thats not gone well.

Textcritic · 04-09-2018, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Locke

22 Points.

-7.

Thats not gone well.

That is besides the point. Or are you happy to promote arguments on the basis of half-truths and blatant falsehoods?

The Cobra · 04-09-2018, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Rasmus and Foo have already had success in their callups and Rasmus is a sure fire roster player next season. Valimaki and Dube are going to get serious looks and I bet one of them at least makes the team. Parsons is a great goalie candidate, Fox has a lot of talent. And that Tkachuk guy seems good.

Foo having a few good games at the end of the season is nice but hardly a sure thing. Or have you forgotten the Sven saga.

All teams have a list of promising players, the Flames aren’t immune to that. The fact is, their prospects are considered average on most lists.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Red · 04-09-2018, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

False. Brouwer ranks 10th among forwards and 14th overall in PP TOI/GP.

I am not taking in to account players like Jagr,Foo or Versteeg etc. These guys barely played this year.

He is in the top 6 of regulars.

Red · 04-09-2018, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

That is besides the point. Or are you happy to promote arguments on the basis of half-truths and blatant falsehoods?

Sounds like you are.

See my other response.

Textcritic · 04-09-2018, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red

I am not taking in to account players like Jagr,Foo or Versteeg etc. These guys barely played this year.

He is in the top 6 of regulars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red

Sounds like you are.

See my other response.

I did. And it is still wrong.
Brouwer was 7th in total icetime among forwards, and 10th overall.

Red · 04-09-2018, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

7th in total icetime among forwards, and 10th overall. You are exaggerating.

Post them please and include total PP times for the season.

Textcritic · 04-09-2018, 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red

Post them please and include total PP times for the season.

Why don't you just go see them for yourself?
The numbers NHL.com publishes are even sortable!

Red · 04-09-2018, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Why don't you just go see them for yourself?
The numbers NHL.com publishes are even sortable!

Thanks, I stand corrected. I grossly exaggerated it. He is in top 7 on PP not top 6.
My bad.

Royle9 · 04-09-2018, 11:32 AM

Top 6/Top 7 still means hes on either 1st line PP or 2nd line PP almost the entire season... which still validates Red's original point...

wtf are we arguing here?

Brouwerplay=NG bottom line.

Major Major · 04-09-2018, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red

I am not taking in to account players like Jagr,Foo or Versteeg etc. These guys barely played this year.

He is in the top 6 of regulars.

How can you not take jagr and Versteeg into account? These were two players earmarked for the pp the were made unavailable to him. There wasn't much to choose from when they went down, and the numbers support that Brouwer wasn't exactly a pp staple. If memory serves, they were trying a ton of different options.

Anyhow, the greatest pp crime of the season was Hamilton not being on pp1 until mid season and also the slow and conservative triangular puck movement. Flames let it be known that they didn't do seam passes. Dave Cameron literally came out and said that. It was an incredibly easy thing to defend.

stone hands · 04-09-2018, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red

The point is that you have no point, but you feel the need to pipe in whenever anyone makes any negative comment about GG or Brouwer and correct people.
We dont need to be corrected. Especially with ridiculous justifications that you continue to manufacture.
A guy with 0 PP goals all year does not belong on a PP when 9 other forwards are siting on the bench,. End. Of. Story

Correcting people who make false statements is how we are better than oilers fans

Insane hyperbole that should only see the light of day on overtime after the game

There is plenty of areas to legitimately criticize around this team without having to make stuff up

GioforPM · 04-09-2018, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Royle9

Top 6/Top 7 still means hes on either 1st line PP or 2nd line PP almost the entire season... which still validates Red's original point...

wtf are we arguing here?

Brouwerplay=NG bottom line.

Not when you look at the quarter splits, which are available on dobber. Or when you look game by game. He for sure was on the top unit in the first quarter, and obviously in the shortened lineup in the fourth quarter, which skews his numbers for the season. In the second quarter he was taken off altogether, averaging less than 30 seconds per game (in other words, he was being put on in anticipation of it ending). He got on some more after Ferland went out in the third quarter.

bax · 04-09-2018, 12:12 PM

There are three main reasons why Brouwer got as much power play time as he did:

-Injuries forced him back into the rotation
-He actually has decent track record for power play production
-He is one of the few forwards on this team that is a right hand shot. For the majority of the year Gulutzan's options were Brouwer, Hathaway, Lazar