Jankowski/Gilmour signing watch. (Friedman: "Arm-wrestling" over bonuses)

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by zyzz

What's to talk about. Johnny signed right away. This guy is looking pretty silly. What makes you better son?

Gaudreau was likely offered the max in bonuses right off the bat

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by zyzz

This guy is looking pretty silly.

Oh, the unintentional irony.

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by zyzz

What's to talk about. Johnny signed right away. This guy is looking pretty silly. What makes you better son?

As has been mentioned numerous times, it's a different situation. Johnny had to sign right away in order to get in an NHL game before the end of the season. There isn't the same urgency this time around.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by zyzz

What's to talk about. Johnny signed right away. This guy is looking pretty silly. What makes you better son?

Negotiations tend to get harder not easier when things aren't so cut and dry. Johnny held all the cards in his negotiation, so to speak, we wanted him badly. Likely not much to get tripped up on in that situation. Same in the reverse if the prospect his pretty low on the totem poll, he'll take what's given.

Jankow is somewhere in between, Flames trying to come in lower than what he thinks he's worth, Jankow likely wanting to value himself like a Gaudreau at the same point in their careers. This creates a negotiation, and takes more time.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Negotiations tend to get harder not easier when things aren't so cut and dry. Johnny held all the cards in his negotiation, so to speak, we wanted him badly. Likely not much to get tripped up on in that situation. Same in the reverse if the prospect his pretty low on the totem poll, he'll take what's given.

Jankow is somewhere in between, Flames trying to come in lower than what he thinks he's worth, Jankow likely wanting to value himself like a Gaudreau at the same point in their careers. This creates a negotiation, and takes more time.

bah what is this logic mumbo jumbo? it's makes so much more sense to make ridiculous comments

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Negotiations tend to get harder not easier when things aren't so cut and dry. Johnny held all the cards in his negotiation, so to speak, we wanted him badly. Likely not much to get tripped up on in that situation. Same in the reverse if the prospect his pretty low on the totem poll, he'll take what's given.

Jankow is somewhere in between, Flames trying to come in lower than what he thinks he's worth, Jankow likely wanting to value himself like a Gaudreau at the same point in their careers. This creates a negotiation, and takes more time.

But it doesn't make sense to play hardball with him unless Treliving thinks his cap hit will hurt the club next season assuming we are burning off a year this year. It's only one year and the cap hit only hurts the club if Jankowski is up with the Flames.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Taking the compensation (51st pick in the 2017 draft)
CedarMeter, DiracSpike, gvitaly, MoreDrank, New User, Ramjacket, VladtheImpaler

[PugnaciousIntern]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Taking the compensation (51st pick in the 2017 draft)
CedarMeter, DiracSpike, gvitaly, MoreDrank, New User, Ramjacket, VladtheImpaler

Not a huge fan of posts like this.

[getbak]

As sureLoss already said, the performance bonus cushion is 7.5%. If next year's cap is $74 million, that makes the bonus cushion $5.55 million. Any bonuses in excess of that have to count against the cap until they can't be achieved any more.


Bennett has $2.3 million in performance bonuses on his contract. If the Flames get lucky and get one of the big three in the Draft, he'll probably get a maximum ELC, with $2.85 million in bonus potential, and will likely make the team out of camp.

Right there, that's $5.1 million in bonuses that could be tied up to start next season.


$2 million of the bonuses are unlikely for any player to achieve because you have to be an elite player league-wide (Johnny will likely earn some this year, but that's the level you have to be at to get them).

No offense to Jankowski, but he's very unlikely to be in the conversation for any major awards next season (the Calder doesn't qualify for "B" level bonuses), or to be top-10 in any statistical categories. While it would be nice to just say "sure, take the bonuses, we hope you get them", if he does get maximum bonuses and makes the team out of camp, that's over $2 million in cap space that he's taking up for the whole season even though he has virtually no chance of earning it.


When the Flames signed Cervenka, they offered him full bonuses without hesitation because they didn't have any high-level entry-level players in the system who were going to push their way onto the roster (Sven was the only potential one, and he didn't have a lot of bonuses on his contract). That's not the case for next season (or the season after -- although Bennett's ELC will be over then).

[FlamesAddiction]

I would rather sign him for the simple fact that even if he still needs time in the AHL, he is closer to being an NHL player than a 2017 2nd rounder.

But I don't think the pick is that far off value-wise, so I won't cry too hard if we don't sign him.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Taking the compensation (51st pick in the 2017 draft)
CedarMeter, DiracSpike, gvitaly, MoreDrank, New User, Ramjacket, VladtheImpaler

At least now if he doesn't sign people can't say "he sucks I didn't want him anyways"

I really don't care either way. He's no better than Agostino and won't be relevant to the Flames for at least two seasons even if he does become an NHLer. IMO too much time is being spent talking about Jankowski because of where he was drafted. He's just another prospect with upside.

I still stand by the notion that Treliving isn't offering him a great contract and they're fighting over bonuses because he's not that high on Treliving's "care list" if he really wanted him and a little money was the issue then he'd be signed by now.

I still think he doesn't sign here and it'll be because Treliving wouldn't budge. And that will be ok and the pick we get will be nice.

[Bandwagon In Flames]

Originally Posted by PugnaciousIntern

Not a huge fan of posts like this.

Only tasteful when it's a 20/1 blowout in my honest opinion.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by getbak

As sureLoss already said, the performance bonus cushion is 7.5%. If next year's cap is $74 million, that makes the bonus cushion $5.55 million. Any bonuses in excess of that have to count against the cap until they can't be achieved any more.


Bennett has $2.3 million in performance bonuses on his contract. If the Flames get lucky and get one of the big three in the Draft, he'll probably get a maximum ELC, with $2.85 million in bonus potential, and will likely make the team out of camp.

Right there, that's $5.1 million in bonuses that could be tied up to start next season.


$2 million of the bonuses are unlikely for any player to achieve because you have to be an elite player league-wide (Johnny will likely earn some this year, but that's the level you have to be at to get them).

No offense to Jankowski, but he's very unlikely to be in the conversation for any major awards next season (the Calder doesn't qualify for "B" level bonuses), or to be top-10 in any statistical categories. While it would be nice to just say "sure, take the bonuses, we hope you get them", if he does get maximum bonuses and makes the team out of camp, that's over $2 million in cap space that he's taking up for the whole season even though he has virtually no chance of earning it.


When the Flames signed Cervenka, they offered him full bonuses without hesitation because they didn't have any high-level entry-level players in the system who were going to push their way onto the roster (Sven was the only potential one, and he didn't have a lot of bonuses on his contract). That's not the case for next season (or the season after -- although Bennett's ELC will be over then).

There is also the fact that both Johnny and Monahan could be paid huge in bonuses this year, Bennett could reach some too, it could push us over this year's cap.

[Itse]

Originally Posted by Bandwagon In Flames

Only tasteful when it's a 20/1 blowout in my honest opinion.

Never "tasteful" to try to shame the minority opinion.

[GoFlamesGo1989]

Originally Posted by zyzz

What's to talk about. Johnny signed right away. This guy is looking pretty silly. What makes you better son?

Different agents probably

[sureLoss]

Just my speculation, but I wonder if Jankowski is trading not burning a year for more performance bonuses.

Every day this drags out he is losing $4.5k in NHL salary otherwise.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by getbak

No offense to Jankowski, but he's very unlikely to be in the conversation for any major awards next season (the Calder doesn't qualify for "B" level bonuses), or to be top-10 in any statistical categories. While it would be nice to just say "sure, take the bonuses, we hope you get them", if he does get maximum bonuses and makes the team out of camp, that's over $2 million in cap space that he's taking up for the whole season even though he has virtually no chance of earning it.

Care to explain this?

Why is his bonus taking up cap space if he did not earn it?

[sureLoss]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Care to explain this?

Why is his bonus taking up cap space if he did not earn it?

That is the way the NHL tracks it. Performance bonuses count towards the cap/bonus cushion until they can no longer be achieved.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by nik-

ok greenlantern, there's no more water in that well

Overplayed the hand

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

There is also the fact that both Johnny and Monahan could be paid huge in bonuses this year, Bennett could reach some too, it could push us over this year's cap.

No, they should be safe. Johnny can max out at $1.85 million; Monahan at $850,000; and Bennett is only likely to hit 2 out of 4 bonuses (if he reaches 20 goals). All told, that's $3.125 million that could be paid out this season (Monahan and Bennett still haven't hit the minimums for all of their bonuses, but it's likely they will).

According to GeneralFanager, the Flames are on target to have over $3.5 million in cap space at the end of the season, so they shouldn't have to use any bonus cushion from next year.