[Trade] Flames acquire Shane O'Brien and David Jones for Tanguay and Sarich

[ricardodw]

The Av's were off the map bad last year.

They will have trouble in their dressing room until they deal with the Ryan O'Rielly mess.


He is getting paid 6.5M this year and has a career high 18 goals.

Using O'Rielly as the standard.... Jones at 4M is getting underpaid for his 27 and 20 goal seasons.

O'Rielly is a RFA this year (or a UFA unless he is qualified at around 7M).

If you throw out last year as a total mess up on Colorado's short season ( Best D_man Johnson hurt, ROR hold out, midget D-man Tyson Barrie getting the most ice time) then the Flames would be getting a big RW coming off of 27 and 20 goal seasons. The year before he had 10 goals in only 23 games.



Landeskog had 17 pts last year on that messed up team. Is he done as a player? or was his bad year part of the team imploding?

[you got PHANUEFED]

What a bad trade at this point, tangs could of been dealt at the draft for much better return.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

The whole business about getting younger in moot. It's not like we added a player who has yet to peak - which is the point of getting younger.

The other side of the coin is getting rid of a player who is likely to see his play drop off steeply over the next three years (as most players do from 33 to 36), and another who will probably retire in the same span.

If you think Tanguay and Sarich could have brought us back quality picks or prospects... well, I don't know what to say. We were always going to take back salary - significant salary - in a Tanguay deal. DO you think someone was going to give us a solid, improving 23 or 24 year old for Tanguay?

[Ne7en]

This is one of those cases where the team that got the best player wins the trade. Tanguay >>> everyone else. If you're going to trade away skill then you better be getting something back. Jones and O'Brien are not what the Flames need, especially if you take contracts into consideration.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

The Av's were off the map bad last year.

They will have trouble in their dressing room until they deal with the Ryan O'Rielly mess.


He is getting paid 6.5M this year and has a career high 18 goals.

Using O'Rielly as the standard.... Jones at 4M is getting underpaid for his 27 and 20 goal seasons.

O'Rielly is a RFA this year (or a UFA unless he is qualified at around 7M).

If you throw out last year as a total mess up on Colorado's short season ( Best D_man Johnson hurt, ROR hold out, midget D-man Tyson Barrie getting the most ice time) then the Flames would be getting a big RW coming off of 27 and 20 goal seasons. The year before he had 10 goals in only 23 games.



Landeskog had 17 pts last year on that messed up team. Is he done as a player? or was his bad year part of the team imploding?

You could use the same excuse for Tanguay that you are using for Jones. The team imploded, traded its best forward and morale hit an all time low.

IT's funny how people are saying Jones' terrible play last season was a product of the environment, but they aren't willing to give the same benefit of the doubt to Tanguay (who was still better than Jones anyway you measure it).

To be honest, I am not sad to see Tanguay gone. I just have no faith in Jones to add anything to this team but a slightly higher salary.

Between Sarich and SOB... whatever. O'brien might me a slightly better player at this point, but this team lacks leadership more than anything and Sarich brought that at least whereas SOB sounds like he doesn't. So, in that respect, we made a big hole a little bigger.

[868904]

Some fans overvalue Tanguay's skill and overlook the weak parts of his game, of which there are many. As far as I'm concerned, Iginla's game deteriorated the minute guys like Tanguay and Huselius were brought in. Iginla became enthralled with the pretty plays and moved away from what made him effective, which was the power game. In this way, I saw Tanguay and Huselius as cancers that ruined the best player in the game, which is why I'm biased against Tanguay and am in favour of this trade.

Skill is good, but it can't be your only dimension, you have to be strong in other parts of the game. Guys like Tanguay, Huselius, and the older Iginla, are too one dimensional to be effective on winning teams.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

.

If you think Tanguay and Sarich could have brought us back quality picks or prospects... well, I don't know what to say. We were always going to take back salary - significant salary - in a Tanguay deal. DO you think someone was going to give us a solid, improving 23 or 24 year old for Tanguay?

I never said that. I am saying that I would have rather of received nothing or not made the trade at all than to make a bad trade.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by you got PHANUEFED

What a bad trade at this point, tangs could of been dealt at the draft for much better return.

Why? He still has two more years and wasn't likely to get many points in the Flames this year.

David Jones would likely fetch the same at the deadline: little

[Itse]

Originally Posted by The Swedish Flame

Could always talk about Jokerit!

That might be really off-topic though...

Then again, Jokerit joining the KHL in 2014 is propably more interesting than this trade...

(Being that it's the first truly "western" team to do so.)

[Bonded]

I still feel like we should have picked up a second

[schteve_d]

What is this whole Clutterbuck thing? Is it a CP meme that I somehow missed? Every time it comes up, which seems to be relatively often, I feel like something just whizzed right by my head!

[devo22]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I still feel like we should have picked up a second

too bad that it takes two to tango.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Which was effectively over last summer when he was given his extension. He's a 34 year old 7th or 8th d-man.

Love Sarich, but O'Brien is an upgrade at this stage.

absolutely..... the thing is that Sarich became a Calgary folk legend in the playoffs with his Marleau hit and playing in 08-09 on a fractured ankle.

Sarich was a better D-man in the playoffs...... He should have likely been traded at this year's deadline and the Av's will likely trade him for a 2nd/3rd round pick to playoff team and he will likely have a great playoffs to finish off his career.

O'Brien at 230 Lbs of crazy adds a different dimension to the Flames altogether..... They will have a guy on the ice for 12-15 minutes as game that at 230 lbs can totally destroy some regular sized guy that runs the goalie.

Now with Jackman, Mcgratton and SOB dressed the Flames have a chance to go nuclear when the other teams runs Baertschi.

Glencross (and Jones) can play with more of an edge and not have to worry about having no backing.

Everybody on the Flames will play a bit bigger with SOB and Jones in the line-up.

That is really important for the kids--- Horak, Rienhart, Hankowski , Monahan, Brodie that they won't get pushed around and called out if they play big.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I never said that. I am saying that I would have rather of received nothing or not made the trade at all than to make a bad trade.

Receiving nothing leaves a log-jam of small and soft players at LW, and very weak RW depth. And still looking for size up front.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

O'Brien at 230 Lbs of crazy adds a different dimension to the Flames altogether..... They will have a guy on the ice for 12-15 minutes as game that at 230 lbs can totally destroy some regular sized guy that runs the goalie.

Now with Jackman, Mcgratton and SOB dressed the Flames have a chance to go nuclear when the other teams runs Baertschi.

Glencross (and Jones) can play with more of an edge and not have to worry about having no backing.

Everybody on the Flames will play a bit bigger with SOB and Jones in the line-up.

That is really important for the kids--- Horak, Rienhart, Hankowski , Monahan, Brodie that they won't get pushed around and called out if they play big.

From my understanding of what Avs fans are saying, Jones does not use his size to hit and falls over easy and SOB was a distraction in their dressing room.

I think Feaster is trying to outsmart people again and banking on a Jones resurgence.

I am just afraid we have a 4 million dollar Blake Comeau

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Hopefully we can put a bullet in this topic. No great gain, no great loss.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Receiving nothing leaves a log-jam of small and soft players at LW, and very weak RW depth. And still looking for size up front.

That's the same logic that Button used when he bought out St. Louis and replaced him with Dwayne Hay.

More skilled doesn't always mean better, but neither does younger and bigger. There are bound to be free agents and bought out players that can add size on the left wing and depth on the right. The farm even has options.

I suppose we'll have to wait and see how this plays out before we can judge and I would be more than happy to be wrong, but I have seen too many Hagmans, Kotaliks, Comeaus, Leclercs and Friesens come through this team over the past few years that potential lemons aren't that difficult to spot anymore.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

You could use the same excuse for Tanguay that you are using for Jones. The team imploded, traded its best forward and morale hit an all time low.

IT's funny how people are saying Jones' terrible play last season was a product of the environment, but they aren't willing to give the same benefit of the doubt to Tanguay (who was still better than Jones anyway you measure it).

To be honest, I am not sad to see Tanguay gone. I just have no faith in Jones to add anything to this team but a slightly higher salary.

Between Sarich and SOB... whatever. O'brien might me a slightly better player at this point, but this team lacks leadership more than anything and Sarich brought that at least whereas SOB sounds like he doesn't. So, in that respect, we made a big hole a little bigger.

Okay throw last year out.....

The year before Tanguay had 13 goals and 49 pts (1 goal 15 points on the PP) playing 19 minutes a game on 1st power play . His line mates were Iginla 67 pts and Jokinen 61 pts.


Jones 20 goals 37 points (3 goals 6 pts on the PP) playing 15 minutes a game with Statsny 53 pts and Mcginn/Hejduk as line mates.

Tanguay had 22 hits, Jones 85.


If this trade is made last off season the Flames clear cut winners..... even before the 5 year age difference.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by doctajones428

We traded him before the season started, they traded him during the trade deadline.

Huge difference

Not to mention he was making room to try to bring in Richards

that was all Feaster's fault too. Why trade him at the draft if we weren't getting any draft picks from Buffalo? Terrible trade no matter how Dissentowner spins it.

Still can't believe we sold a 2nd rounder for $3mill... just mind bottling.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by fotze

Things to remember:
Both had NMC's.
Tanguay wanted out.
Sarich expressed wishes to get out in the past.
This limits the market.
Sarich was not dressed lots (TWO) years ago.
Old guard needs to be gone.
Who wouldn't have preferred four 1st round picks?
Tanguay had zero acquisition cost.
MAYBE Jones has some upside.
SOB is a prickly a-hole to play against.
This is the value our garbage assets command.
Our garbage assets are even more garbagy because of goofyass contracts from the crazy Sutter years.
This return is much like the Erixon situation. Hands tied.

Agree 99% except the Tanguay and Sarich deals are pure Feaster.