Xbox One - Where Microsoft actually listens to consumers

[psicodude]

Originally Posted by themedicineman

I would love an education on DRM and its benefits.

How about $60 games are now sold for $30?

[3 Justin 3]

I read parts of that link from the Microsoft Engineer and again their entire argument is flawed and stupid.

Without actually thinking about how convienent it would be for the majority of the time to not find that disc your brother didn't put back...

Yes, because that happens all the time.

Same with this:

Really the majority of people have a speck of internet at least once a day. And if you don't. Don't buy an Xbox 1. Just like if you didn't have a broadband connection don't get Live, and if you don't have an HDTV the 360 isn't that great for you either. New tech, new req. This allows us to do cool #### when we can assume things like you have a kinect, you have internet, etc.

It's just condescending arrogance without any actual argument.

How does this move to a Steam model of download distribution and the PS4 not as well? I can download any game I want on the PS network as well and when I have the game I don't need to be online to play it.


Microsoft needs to go back to year 1 of Business School to learn how to actually manage PR, because they have no idea what they are doing.

For the people who are defending Microsoft here, please enlighten me on why DRM and 24 hour check-ins benefit me as a gamer. Also, explain how the PS4 isn't a "living room media device" where as the XBone is. What can the PS4 not do?

[polak]

There is no benefit vs. PS4 for you the consumer. At all. Even Microsoft is unable to think of one.

Like you said, if not having to worry about discs is what you want, then the PS4 has PS+. Again, ZERO benefit to the consumer vs. PS4. Zero.

Microsoft reminds me of the music industry in the 00's with it's inability to handle piracy correctly.

This is a full blown disaster for them. Unless something changes I'll be shocked if Playstation doesn't blow them out of the water this gen. I'm talking like, PS2 vs. Xbox bad.

[themedicineman]

Originally Posted by psicodude

How about $60 games are now sold for $30?

What high budget game has launched for less than $50 on steam? I haven't seen one. Skyrim is still $30. Borderlands $40. Bioshock $60. Granted you could have picked all of those up on sale for far less. I could see Microsoft exclusives launching for less than $60 but no less than $50. DRM isn't some magical system that's going to get you games at half price at release. But guess what, you could easily go over to a store the week of a release and get that game used for less than full price easy on a 360, ps3, ps4 and wiiu.

[trackercowe]

Originally Posted by psicodude

How about $60 games are now sold for $30?

lol, like Microsoft and other gaming companies will ever do that. They might offer exclusive DLC, or some other useless bonuses, but the price of games will always be comparable to PS4 prices.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by trackercowe

lol, like Microsoft and other gaming companies will ever do that. They might offer exclusive DLC, or some other useless bonuses, but the price of games will always be comparable to PS4 prices.

Worse yet they'll make the games free to play but nerf it so bad it's not playable free. I'm looking at you Killer Instinct 3. One fricking character is playable and all the rest will be DLC.

[psicodude]

They have to drop the price of games. Do a little research and you will discover that the console gaming industry has been taking a beating for the last year or so and is headed for disaster. Casual gamers are migrating to mobile gaming and their $4 games in droves and the consoles need to react.

According to this 3 year old article: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/ente...ideo-game.html, it costs a full $27 per disc to get a boxed game into the hands of a gamer via a retailer. Isn't it plausible that a large chunk of those costs go away under a Steam delivery model? What percentage of the publishers take goes to cover piracy that they could hypothetically drop?

I know that new release games on Steam are still $60, but I believe the reason is because there is currently no competition to push the prices down. Many retailers have to charge $60 to make a decent profit and those same retailers aren't going to put your game on their shelves if you sell it for $40 on Steam.

The point here is that companies like Microsoft and Sony won't have a choice but to drop their prices soon if they want their gaming divisions to be viable. They are going to have to try to sell their games for $30 - $40 and convince gamers that there is enough added value in using their console to justify the extra cost in comparison to tablets or phones. Employing strategies like DRM and digital-only distribution are likely the only methods to get there.

[FlameOn]

For the MS apologists, this is one BIG reason Xbox One should have been thought out a bit better with the 24 hour checkin requirement.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by psicodude

They have to drop the price of games. Do a little research and you will discover that the console gaming industry has been taking a beating for the last year or so and is headed for disaster. Casual gamers are migrating to mobile gaming and their $4 games in droves and the consoles need to react.

According to this 3 year old article: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/ente...ideo-game.html, it costs a full $27 per disc to get a boxed game into the hands of a gamer via a retailer. Isn't it plausible that a large chunk of those costs go away under a Steam delivery model? What percentage of the publishers take goes to cover piracy that they could hypothetically drop?

I know that new release games on Steam are still $60, but I believe the reason is because there is currently no competition to push the prices down. Many retailers have to charge $60 to make a decent profit and those same retailers aren't going to put your game on their shelves if you sell it for $40 on Steam.

The point here is that companies like Microsoft and Sony won't have a choice but to drop their prices soon if they want their gaming divisions to be viable. They are going to have to try to sell their games for $30 - $40 and convince gamers that there is enough added value in using their console to justify the extra cost in comparison to tablets or phones. Employing strategies like DRM and digital-only distribution are likely the only methods to get there.

That's what I said in my last post. The gaming industry has been in the crapper for the past few years and developers have gone out of business left and right. Retail discs will soon be a thing of the past like it has become for PC gaming. DRM is the future wether you like it or not and Sony seems to be going with the flow to align with the emotional chords of hardcore gamers but they will either have to get with the program or sell their $60 discs against Microsoft's $40 downloads for the same games.

[Coys1882]

I'm really confused about the anger and vitriol directed at Microsoft for the direction they've decided to go. It's almost like people are taking this as a personal affront and are reacting accordingly.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

I'm really confused about the anger and vitriol directed at Microsoft for the direction they've decided to go. It's almost like people are taking this as a personal affront and are reacting accordingly.

I said it early in the thread. The entitlement in the videogamer crowd is insane. They are stupid to have these DRM issues, but they don't owe anyone anything else. Don't f'n buy it then

[chemgear]

Pretty unprofessional at E3:

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by psicodude

They have to drop the price of games. Do a little research and you will discover that the console gaming industry has been taking a beating for the last year or so and is headed for disaster. Casual gamers are migrating to mobile gaming and their $4 games in droves and the consoles need to react.

According to this 3 year old article: http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/ente...ideo-game.html, it costs a full $27 per disc to get a boxed game into the hands of a gamer via a retailer. Isn't it plausible that a large chunk of those costs go away under a Steam delivery model? What percentage of the publishers take goes to cover piracy that they could hypothetically drop?

I know that new release games on Steam are still $60, but I believe the reason is because there is currently no competition to push the prices down. Many retailers have to charge $60 to make a decent profit and those same retailers aren't going to put your game on their shelves if you sell it for $40 on Steam.

The point here is that companies like Microsoft and Sony won't have a choice but to drop their prices soon if they want their gaming divisions to be viable. They are going to have to try to sell their games for $30 - $40 and convince gamers that there is enough added value in using their console to justify the extra cost in comparison to tablets or phones. Employing strategies like DRM and digital-only distribution are likely the only methods to get there.

lol @ thinking game prices will ever go down. Do you know how much it costs to make these games? Millions of $ and its only going to keep increasing.

If you think Microsoft is going to let the retailers sell their games for less than $60 they won't. The pricing is up to the retailer and they will keep it at $60. If not, they'll say "shove it, we're not selling your console" and Microsoft is screwed.

Also, the reason why studio's shut down left right and center is because games cost a ton to make, they don't sell enough copies and the Publisher drops them. Ultimately it is the Publisher who destroys the studios because they take such a huge cut (but they also take a lot of the risk). Studios make no money unless your Infinity Ward or Rockstar.

If Microsoft decides to sell their games for $40 on Live for digital distribution at launch good for them, I guarantee you they won't, but restricting DRM isn't the reason why they can do it.

DRM serves no purpose for the consumer other than to restrict them. Everything Microsoft can do over digital distribution with DRM, Sony can do the exact same thing without DRM.

Lastly, I've already said it but I have to reiterate: game prices will not drop for $60 for a launch game. Only rarely has that ever happened and it only ever lasted for the first 3 days (Batman: Arkham Asylum, etc.)

[psicodude]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

lol @ thinking game prices will ever go down. Do you know how much it costs to make these games? Millions of $ and its only going to keep increasing.

If you think Microsoft is going to let the retailers sell their games for less than $60 they won't. The pricing is up to the retailer and they will keep it at $60. If not, they'll say "shove it, we're not selling your console" and Microsoft is screwed.

Also, the reason why studio's shut down left right and center is because games cost a ton to make, they don't sell enough copies and the Publisher drops them. Ultimately it is the Publisher who destroys the studios because they take such a huge cut (but they also take a lot of the risk). Studios make no money unless your Infinity Ward or Rockstar.

If Microsoft decides to sell their games for $40 on Live for digital distribution at launch good for them, I guarantee you they won't, but restricting DRM isn't the reason why they can do it.

DRM serves no purpose for the consumer other than to restrict them. Everything Microsoft can do over digital distribution with DRM, Sony can do the exact same thing without DRM.

Lastly, I've already said it but I have to reiterate: game prices will not drop for $60 for a launch game. Only rarely has that ever happened and it only ever lasted for the first 3 days (Batman: Arkham Asylum, etc.)

You've missed the point. I believe MS is going to cut out the retailer altogether and move to a Steam-like model of digital download only. This way they can drop prices while retaining their licensing cost. Studios are shutting down because they are selling 25% less games this year as compared to last because casual gamers are spending $4 at the App Store on their iPad. They are growing weary of spending $60 on crap and would rather only waste the 4 bucks.

The traditional sales model is being disrupted by the app stores and the console boys need to adjust or face eventual extinction.

And if you think there will be zero DRM on the PS4, you are delusional. Sony is just being smarter (sneakier?) about it. It's not like they haven't tried before.

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by psicodude

You've missed the point. I believe MS is going to cut out the retailer altogether and move to a Steam-like model of digital download only. This way they can drop prices while retaining their licensing cost. Studios are shutting down because they are selling 25% less games this year as compared to last because casual gamers are spending $4 at the App Store on their iPad. They are growing weary of spending $60 on crap and would rather only waste the 4 bucks.

The traditional sales model is being disrupted by the app stores and the console boys need to adjust or face eventual extinction.

And if you think there will be zero DRM on the PS4, you are delusional. Sony is just being smarter (sneakier?) about it. It's not like they haven't tried before.

Microsoft will cut out the retailer and the retailer will cut out Microsoft. Then the only place to buy a Xbox One will be Microsoft's website.

Retailers make no money off console sales, why sell a console if Microsoft is going to try and undercut them in game sales? The Big Box stores will tell them to shove it.

People who buy games for $60 aren't turning towards $4 sh***y iPhone games, that's an entirely different market. It isn't like the XBone is targeting children either (who buy these $4 games) since the console is $500.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

People who buy games for $60 aren't turning towards $4 sh***y iPhone games, that's an entirely different market. It isn't like the XBone is targeting children either (who buy these $4 games) since the console is $500.

What? Sorry, you know these children have parents who will buy the console and the games for them, right? Y'know, the same way they would have bought them the iPhone/iPod Touch they're using to play their $4 App Store games?

They're trying to capture more of the market, including casual gamers. You get that, right?

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

What? Sorry, you know these children have parents who will buy the console and the games for them, right? Y'know, the same way they would have bought them the iPhone/iPod Touch they're using to play their $4 App Store games?

They're trying to capture more of the market, including casual gamers. You get that, right?

Casual gamers are the ones who spend $500 on a console and then $60 a game, eh? I know they're trying to target a bigger market, they are trying to get tv people as well.

In what entitled world does a 11 year old ask their parent for a $500 console and then want a brand new game every month. My parents would and did laugh at me for asking for such an outrageous demand. Either I am giving parents too much credit for being good parents, or parents are becoming extremely easy to push around at all their kids wants and desires.

This is a silly argument, you can't with a straight face think that parents are going to buy their kid a $500 console, $60/yr Live subscription and then $60/game. It's ludicrous. A $500 price tag does not target a casual gamer.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

This is a silly argument, you can't with a straight face think that parents are going to buy their kid a $500 console, $60/yr Live subscription and then $60/game. It's ludicrous. A $500 price tag does not target a casual gamer.

You realilze we live in North America righ? Where people spend hundreds and thousands (monthly bills hand hardware) on smart phones even for their kids? We saw the $250 Wii sell out for a year after it launched to casual gamers of all types.

We get that you hate Microsoft and the Xbox but you aren't making any valid points and are starting to troll the thread. There is a PS4 thread you know.

[PsYcNeT]

There's also a console argument THUNDERDOME!!!!

Also lol at Big Box stores having any swing. They're all going under thanks to online retailers anyway, it's just a matter of time.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

There's also a console argument THUNDERDOME!!!!

Also lol at Big Box stores having any swing. They're all going under thanks to online retailers anyway, it's just a matter of time.

I think Walmart still has some heavy influence and should be around for a while and you can see that Microsoft is trying to do the transition slowly rather than just cutting the cord.