Humboldt Broncos tragedy.

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by Mattman

Just sad honestly. He doesn't belong in a prison.

Why not?

He killed more than a dozen people due to his lack of care and attention. He's driving a vehicle that causes death if not operated vigilantly.

Why doesn't he deserve to be punished for ruining so many families lives?

[dre]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

Why not?

He killed more than a dozen people due to his lack of care and attention. He's driving a vehicle that causes death if not operated vigilantly.

Why doesn't he deserve to be punished for ruining so many families lives?

That is a good question.

Are you able to find empathy for the driver?

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by thymebalm

Why not?

He killed more than a dozen people due to his lack of care and attention. He's driving a vehicle that causes death if not operated vigilantly.

Why doesn't he deserve to be punished for ruining so many families lives?

Originally Posted by dre

That is a good question.

Are you able to find empathy for the driver?

I guess the question should be: where does he belongs if not the prison? He isn't mentally insane, so he doesn't belongs in a institution. This is an honest question. People find empathy for the driver, it's their prerogative, I guess I don't have much empathy for the driver because so many families been destroy, my heart is overtaken by their grieves, it has no room for empathy for the driver.

[oldschoolcalgary]

its tragic on so many levels...

i have empathy for the driver of the bus, as well as the families of course... i think he does deserve jail time in that it was his carelessness that caused this tragedy...

it is literally the difference of a 1 second, using the calculation that 100 km/hr translates to 91 feet per second and a bus or trailer truck is typically only 50 feet long...

[Roof-Daddy]

I dunno, the guy blew a stop sign in order to cross a highway at 86-96 km/h with his cruise control on, killed 16 people and ruined dozens of lives.

Thats extreme negligence in order to save what....2 or 3 minutes of time?

I wouldn't be able to forgive him either.

[Wormius]

It didn’t cross my mind, but I didn’t even think those big rigs had cruise controls. I thought they were all very hands on to keep the driver more engaged.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

Ugh, now this comes out

https://calgaryherald.com/pmn/news-p...4-798d8a4cab00

Looks like mr Singh had a lot of driving violations. Also interesting is that there is some unaccounted for time prior to the accident.

I will concede that given his lack of driving experience he may not have known what the rules are and his duty

I'm sorry but I don't understand the bold part. What rule does he have to know, or what rules may he not know? That he has to stop at the stop sign? Stop sign means stop, doesn't matter where you are driving.

[transplant99]

I have empathy for the driver, but i also fully believe a lengthy prison stay is appropriate because his actions/negligence killed 16 innocent people. He has hurt 100's of family and friends.

There has to some deterrent come out of this whole thing, and even if you believe that prison needs to be rehabilitative moreso than punitive, there still needs to be some punishment and it has to mean something.

I think the crowns suggestion is very fair.

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

Intersection of 13 and 21 near Camrose, where several major accidents occurred, even though there was traffic lights, and now is a traffic circle
https://goo.gl/maps/EWJJnd99GTx

I had a close call out there about 25 years ago. I'm glad they fixed it.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I have empathy for the driver, but i also fully believe a lengthy prison stay is appropriate because his actions/negligence killed 16 innocent people. He has hurt 100's of family and friends.

There has to some deterrent come out of this whole thing, and even if you believe that prison needs to be rehabilitative moreso than punitive, there still needs to be some punishment and it has to mean something.

I think the crowns suggestion is very fair.

Yeah I agree with this. Clearly the driver feels bad and some of the relatives can forgive him, but he still took many lives and you can't just let a person off with a super light sentence for that.

It's a shame because he's not really a 'criminal' in a sense to me as it wasn't intentional, but what he did was certainly criminal. Just tragic all around. 10 years seems fair.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

I guess the question should be: where does he belongs if not the prison?

I think that question comes down to what you believe the purpose for prison is (or ought to be). Punishment, deterrent, or rehabilitation?

Punishment? If that's what you believe prison is for, then the next question would be to determine what you believe is appropriate for an accident or negligence. It's understandable why someone may not see a reason to imprison someone for an accident. It's also easy to see why someone would want to punish someone who caused such loss due to negligence.

Deterrent? If that's what you believe, does sending him to prison act as a deterrent? I would say that it's hard to say that someone not paying attention while driving a truck would change their mind because of a prison sentence when the real deterrent is death and injury (to others and the driver).

Rehabilitation? In that case, there's not much to argue about rehabilitation. If the accident didn't alter the driver's thinking, prison won't.

I think most people have some view of prison being a combination of the above, but if someone was of the view that prison is just for rehabilitation, then I think their argument would be that the driver shouldn't be locked up.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Safety is another reason for prison, but again, don't see that really being a reason for this situation as I don't think anyone believes this man poses a safety risk at this point.

[Snuffleupagus]

I'm torn on this sentence, 10 years for the 16 deaths and ruining the lives of countless people seems low but on the other hand if he was driving a car likely nobody on the bus is killed and it would just another accident.(assuming the driver survived)

[Ryan Coke]

It appears from what I know that there wasn’t gross negligence; he didn’t drink, or undertake any activity which the driver should’ve known would increase the chances of an accident. I understand that he missed a stop sign, which was a tragic error. But really his fault is that he was human, and we all make mistakes. His had terrible consequences. I have witnessed many people make many stupid mistakes, myself included, that didn’t end up like this.

If my understanding of the facts are correct, there really isn’t a benefit to prison time. I understand that he will get some, but there really isn’t any tangible benefit in altering his or others behaviour.

And I really don’t get what him using cruise control has anything to do with anything. He was still driving, and he still missed the stop sign. Cruise control doesn’t imply any increased level of carelessness.

It’s sad all around.

[dre]

I have worked in this industry for a long time. Owned my own company had a few close calls. But I remember one story where a driver with 30 years experience rear ended a car in BC. The car was turning left and she had her steering wheel cranked all the way left and the impact sent her car into oncoming traffic causing a fatality. The truck driver was never the same. Her family did not sue the driver or the company and forgave him.
I understand this is not the same thing, but it might benefit the industry if they had this young driver go and speak to all these truck driving schools and tell his story for 10 years than spent it in a cell. I don't know just throwing an idea out there. So much emotion with this case.

[Ped]

I was leaning toward thinking that prison might not be the right place for him. As others have said, he made a mistake, but it's a mistake that countless people make all the time; most of the time, results are okay, and then something tragic happens.


But then I read the victim impact statements, particularly that from the Josephs, and I've rethought it. Yes, he made a mistake, but whether he deliberately blew the sign or just missed it (although I donn't understand how), he is a professionally trained driver that should know better.


Yes, even professionals make mistakes. But whatever he did resulted in the lives of 13 people, and the the families of the 16 that died, forever being altered, and not in a good way. He will undoubtedly be tortured by that for the rest of his life, and he does seem genuinely remorseful.


But still his actions resulted in tragic death and injury. No malice on his part, but there's not necessarily any malice in a slightly impaired person who thinks they are okay to drive and kills someone, and we expect that person to be punished. Obviously driving impaired is more a serious infraction, than blowing a stop sign, but the results can be the same.



He is already punished, and will be for the rest of his life. But that doesn't mean that legally he shouldn't be.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I think that question comes down to what you believe the purpose for prison is (or ought to be). Punishment, deterrent, or rehabilitation?

Punishment? If that's what you believe prison is for, then the next question would be to determine what you believe is appropriate for an accident or negligence. It's understandable why someone may not see a reason to imprison someone for an accident. It's also easy to see why someone would want to punish someone who caused such loss due to negligence.

Deterrent? If that's what you believe, does sending him to prison act as a deterrent? I would say that it's hard to say that someone not paying attention while driving a truck would change their mind because of a prison sentence when the real deterrent is death and injury (to others and the driver).

Rehabilitation? In that case, there's not much to argue about rehabilitation. If the accident didn't alter the driver's thinking, prison won't.

I think most people have some view of prison being a combination of the above, but if someone was of the view that prison is just for rehabilitation, then I think their argument would be that the driver shouldn't be locked up.

I honestly believe prison is part punishment and part deterrent, may be some might think that if a driver is careless, he is careless no matter the prison sentence. But I would hope if the punishment is heavy enough, people might be a little more careful?



It is true that it's sad all around, but I don't agree this incident will haunt him the rest of his life is punishment enough. 16 families lost their sons, brothers, cousins, friends, some harsh punishment is needed even just for the peace of mind of the victims families and the young men that survived the crash.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by midniteowl

I honestly believe prison is part punishment and part deterrent, may be some might think that if a driver is careless, he is careless no matter the prison sentence. But I would hope if the punishment is heavy enough, people might be a little more careful?

I agree, but the problem with the prison system is that many people who enter it, come out with PTSD, depression, and other mental problems. It becomes very difficult to re-integrate them back into society and have them function to the best of their ability.

I hope the driver gets a long enough sentence that it sends a message of deterrence and punishes the crime. I hope the punishment is heavy enough to give the victims the most peace possible, although nothing would ever be enough. If I was one of the victims, I can't say that I would forgive him and not want the worst. I can't judge anyone affected if that is how they feel.

From a strictly pragmatic view, I hope he gets a long sentence, but that he can serve it in a minimal security facility with access to mental health treatment and occupational training so that when he gets out, he can hopefully do some good in society. There are some people that you want to throw out the key and don't want to care about even after their release. But there are some people who deserve an opportunity to repent and serve society in a positive way after.

It's true that this man was negligent and he needs to be held responsible for the horrific tragedy. But I also know the trucking industry has a culture of complacency and unfair expectations on their drivers. I am really curious to see how the trial against the company goes.

[CGY12]

I'm under the belief that this particular trucking company is more at fault. Not saying all truck companies run a business like this, but this particular company was incompetent when it came to both training and work load. Putting the dollar above public safety.

The driver was simply inexperienced, under trained and over worked (from what i've read). Of course not being familiar with the area and lack of attention was a key contributor to this situation, from what I read his attention was drawn to the straps of the tarp becoming loose.

He wasn't on his phone, he wasn't drinking, he didn't run the stop sign intentionally. Like another poster mentioned, what good does it do to put the guy in jail? To really deter this these type of circumstances I think you have to throw the book at the trucking company, maybe then companies who cut corners just to get people on the road and money in their pockets will stop neglecting the amount of training that goes into properly understanding all facets of being able to operate this vehicle safely (both mental and physical). Maybe then they will think twice about a persons work load before putting them on the road.

Throw the book at the company, work with this young man on educating others on the responsibilities and safety of driving a truck.

Not saying all companies operate like this but this one clearly did.

Just my 2 cents anyway.

[midniteowl]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I agree, but the problem with the prison system is that many people who enter it, come out with PTSD, depression, and other mental problems. It becomes very difficult to re-integrate them back into society and have them function to the best of their ability.

I hope the driver gets a long enough sentence that it sends a message of deterrence and punishes the crime. I hope the punishment is heavy enough to give the victims the most peace possible, although nothing would ever be enough. If I was one of the victims, I can't say that I would forgive him and not want the worst. I can't judge anyone affected if that is how they feel.

From a strictly pragmatic view, I hope he gets a long sentence, but that he can serve it in a minimal security facility with access to mental health treatment and occupational training so that when he gets out, he can hopefully do some good in society. There are some people that you want to throw out the key and don't want to care about even after their release. But there are some people who deserve an opportunity to repent and serve society in a positive way after.

It's true that this man was negligent and he needs to be held responsible for the horrific tragedy. But I also know the trucking industry has a culture of complacency and unfair expectations on their drivers. I am really curious to see how the trial against the company goes.

That I agree with and hopefully the victims and their families can live with