Edmonton is No Good Episode 4: New Rink, Same Stink

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The NHLPA has really been about the top paid players and getting them more and more. the NHLPA has been all about maximum rights of movement to the teams that they want to play for.

But the NHLPA doesn't give a crap about Joe 1.25 million, or Bob 2 million, or Jyrki minimumwageo.

I don't believe that at all.

2003–04 season
Peter Forsberg (Colorado Avalanche) $11 million
Jaromir Jagr (Washington Capitals) $11 million
Sergei Fedorov (Mighty Ducks of Anaheim) $10 million
Nicklas Lidstrom (Detroit Red Wings) $10 million
Keith Tkachuk (St. Louis Blues) $10 million

2017-18
Patrick Kane (Chicago Blackhawks) $13.8 million
Jonathan Toews (Chicago Blackhawks) $13.8 million
Jamie Benn (Dallas Stars) $13 million
Anze Kopitar (Los Angeles Kings) $13 million
Shea Weber (Montreal Canadiens) $12 million

That's the top 5 salaries in 03/04 compared to the top 5 in 17/18.

If the NHLPA has been about the top guys getting more and more, they have failed miserably.

The NHL middle and bottom roster guys have made out like bandits since the salary cap took effect.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

I don't believe that at all.

2003–04 season
Peter Forsberg (Colorado Avalanche) $11 million
Jaromir Jagr (Washington Capitals) $11 million
Sergei Fedorov (Mighty Ducks of Anaheim) $10 million
Nicklas Lidstrom (Detroit Red Wings) $10 million
Keith Tkachuk (St. Louis Blues) $10 million

2017-18
Patrick Kane (Chicago Blackhawks) $13.8 million
Jonathan Toews (Chicago Blackhawks) $13.8 million
Jamie Benn (Dallas Stars) $13 million
Anze Kopitar (Los Angeles Kings) $13 million
Shea Weber (Montreal Canadiens) $12 million

That's the top 5 salaries in 03/04 compared to the top 5 in 17/18.

If the NHLPA has been about the top guys getting more and more, they have failed miserably.

The NHL middle and bottom roster guys have made out like bandits since the salary cap took effect.

Of course you don't. You just cherry picked salaries, ignored AAV & the cap / pre-cap era, & the dismantling of the NHLPA salary structure during the lockout.

With all of that noise & irrelevant confusion I completely miss any point you are trying to make.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by nobles_point

Of course you don't. You just cherry picked salaries, ignored AAV & the cap / pre-cap era, & the dismantling of the NHLPA salary structure during the lockout.

With all of that noise & irrelevant confusion I completely miss any point you are trying to make.

The point is the guys at the top are barely making more then they were 14 years ago.

They are actually making less when you take the AAV into account.

Guys in the middle are making easily double what they made.

Guys at the bottom are making around 3-4 times more.

180,000 min in 2004 to 650,000 today.

I don't know how you could miss the point. It's pretty obvious.

The NHLPA clearly isn't about the top players getting more and more.

[Major Major]

A great side effect of the flames and tre batting 1.00 in the off-season in acquiring players the oilers coveted is the reactionary moves chiarelli is bound to make akin to the Reinhart deal. He is sure to have a momentary cap lapse on July 1.

[Boreal]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

The point is the guys at the top are barely making more then they were 14 years ago.

They are actually making less when you take the AAV into account.

Guys in the middle are making easily double what they made.

Guys at the bottom are making around 3-4 times more.

180,000 min in 2004 to 650,000 today.

I don't know how you could miss the point. It's pretty obvious.

The NHLPA clearly isn't about the top players getting more and more.

Wrong. Your oversimplifying your narrative to support your hopes & dreams.

The NHL won the lockout. Why did you select salary before the lockout? Before the NHLPA took a rollback. Why does the NHLPA continually vote for the escalator if it doesn't care about maximizing player salary. You either didn't make or ignored these points.

The NHLPA wants as many teams as possible at the cap. The Oilers spend to the cap, the Jets don't. You think the NHLPA doesn't care if Laine gives the Jets a bargain deal next off season if he follows McDavid?

Any water your argument holds doesn't make the point that the NHLPA will maximize player salary all the time, every time & organizes player agents to carry this out.

The sweet heart deal John Tavares signed for an inept management group didn't go unnoticed. He lost out on millions.

[Boreal]

Furthermore if you want to keep using your cherry �� picking. Kopitar is due a signing bonus so he made $21 million this year.

[Boreal]

Furthermore if you want to keep using your cherry 🍒 picking. Kopitar is due a signing bonus so he made $21 million this year.

[IrishSpring2013]

2005-2006 $8,360,000 Jagr (NYR)
2006-2007 $8,360,000 Jagr (NYR)
2007-2008 $10,000,000 Briere (PHI), Gomez (NYR), Vanek (BUF)
2008-2009 $10,000,000 Heatley (OTT)
2009-2010 $10,000,000 Lecavalier (TBL)
2010-2011 $10,000,000 Lecavalier (TBL), Luongo (VAN)
2011-2012 $12,000,000 B. Richards (NYR)
2012-2013 $14,000,000 Weber (NAS)
2013-2014 $14,000,000 Weber (NAS)
2014-2015 $14,000,000 Weber (NAS)
2015-2016 $14,000,000 Weber (NAS)
2016-2017 $14,000,000 Kopitar (LAK)

ive noticed oil stain is very sneaky in the way he debates and posts numbers.. see his talk about russells ice time in cgy and where he sat on the depth chart.. he had wideman and russel separated in two tiers.. but were within seconds of each other in ice time...

he is brutal for twisting the facts and figures to suit whatever side of the argument he is on.. this is no different.. posting top salaries the year BEFORE the major 2004-2005 lockout... so disingenuous..

top 5 post lock out

Jaromir Jagr (New York Rangers) $8.36 million[3]
Nicklas Lidstrom (Detroit Red Wings) $7.6 million
Keith Tkachuk (St. Louis Blues) $7.6 million
Alexei Yashin (New York Islanders) $7.6 million
Jarome Iginla (Calgary Flames) $7 million

last season

Patrick Kane (Chicago Blackhawks) $13.8 million
Jonathan Toews (Chicago Blackhawks) $13.8 million
Jamie Benn (Dallas Stars) $13 million
Anze Kopitar (Los Angeles Kings) $13 million
Shea Weber (Montreal Canadiens) $12 million

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by AlbertaOiler72

cause 8th time is a charm

What does that remind me of?
8th time, 8th time, 8th ... oh yea

Spoiler!

[AC]

I have a source that works with the Oilers in some capacity.

He said that the "Oilers are bracing for Draisaitl offer sheets along the lines of $9.5M x 7 years, and see McDavid signing $12-$13M."

That would be a crippling amount of cash tied up in 2 players.

[nik-]

9.5 for Draisaitl is ####ing insanity.

[Roof-Daddy]

Hahaha I hope that's true.

[Racki]

The Battle of Alberta sure is fun again. I was just pointing out to an Oilers pal how there was such a contrast in the way that the two organizations appear to be building their respective teams.

While the Flames have gone the route of building a strong defense and depth down the middle of the ice the Oilers have been built around winning lotteries and praying that one of them works out.

It seems to be going well for both teams - more than one way to skin a cat I guess.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by AC

I have a source that works with the Oilers in some capacity.

He said that the "Oilers are bracing for Draisaitl offer sheets along the lines of $9.5M x 7 years, and see McDavid signing $12-$13M."

That would be a crippling amount of cash tied up in 2 players.

Please be true, the meltdown would be glorious.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The NHLPA isn't about the middle and lower paid players in the league, its never promoted itself as that.

Its about getting a more then 50% share of the revenue pool, and then basically they don't care about things like pay equity or sharing amongst brothers and all that union label stuff.

The NHLPA has really been about the top paid players and getting them more and more. the NHLPA has been all about maximum rights of movement to the teams that they want to play for.

But the NHLPA doesn't give a crap about Joe 1.25 million, or Bob 2 million, or Jyrki minimumwageo.

Getting as big of a chunk of the revenue share helps all the players in a cap system. Each team has a minimum number of players they need to have on their roster and there is a cap floor that needs to be reached, which helps lower paid players get higher salaries. The PA also protects the contracts of every player equally regardless of their salary, unions aren't so much about everybody making the same or "sharing amongst brothers", they are about everybody being treated equally and "support amongst brothers and sisters". This is why you hear about the NHLPA not being in favour of home town discounts, they know other contracts are used as comparables in negotiations and arbitrations so it can potentially reduce the earning potential of another player.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by IrishSpring2013

ive noticed oil stain is very sneaky in the way he debates and posts numbers.. see his talk about russells ice time in cgy and where he sat on the depth chart.. he had wideman and russel separated in two tiers.. but were within seconds of each other in ice time...

he is brutal for twisting the facts and figures to suit whatever side of the argument he is on.. this is no different.. posting top salaries the year BEFORE the major 2004-2005 lockout... so disingenuous..

top 5 post lock out


last season

Except the stats you posted prove his point (that someone other than the top guys were getting the majority of the money)

The cap has gone up by a shade over 87 percent since the first salary cap season (39 million to 73 million)

Yet for some reason the salary for the top five guys you mentioned should have been the following if the salaries of the top 5 guys had kept pace with the increase in the salary cap

1) 15.63 million
2) 14.21 million
3) 14.21 million
4) 14.21 million
5) 13.09 million

The top salaries have not kept up with the salary cap increase and likely will not keep up over time.

[burn_this_city]

Good thing they went whaling last July 1st and landed Lucic for $6M a season. Who'd a thunk they'd have to pay McJesus and Draisaitl big money at some point..? Chia isn't very good at managing the cap.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by AC

I have a source that works with the Oilers in some capacity.

He said that the "Oilers are bracing for Draisaitl offer sheets along the lines of $9.5M x 7 years, and see McDavid signing $12-$13M."

That would be a crippling amount of cash tied up in 2 players.

It's highly unlikely, but imagine how epic it would be if Draisaitl did get a cap hit of $9.5M and then completely fell off the map. McKarma

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Except the stats you posted prove his point (that someone other than the top guys were getting the majority of the money)

The cap has gone up by a shade over 87 percent since the first salary cap season (39 million to 73 million)

Yet for some reason the salary for the top five guys you mentioned should have been the following if the salaries of the top 5 guys had kept pace with the increase in the salary cap

1) 15.63 million
2) 14.21 million
3) 14.21 million
4) 14.21 million
5) 13.09 million

The top salaries have not kept up with the salary cap increase and likely will not keep up over time.

I would suggest checking percentage of cap max to see how salaries of top players are doing. The top players see 17-19% of max, regardless of year. That is the intent of the NHLPA and that is what will continue. McDavid will be pushed to sign for. that range or the max Seriously, if Draisaitl is reported to be getting offersheets of $9.5 million, McDavid will get the max of 20%.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

It's highly unlikely, but imagine how epic it would be if Draisaitl did get a cap hit of $9.5M and then completely fell off the map. McKarma

I think if the Oilers ultimately decide that they need Draisaitl carrying the second line, then this could be closer to a reality. Last year he scored at about a 50-point pace when separated from McDavid. I am sure he would provide solid to great second-line production, but that is not enough to warrant a +$9.0 m payout, and it will weaken the top line.