American Politics 3.0 - Back to Brunch

[Dion]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1587440620062359552

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I don't think it's not understanding voters, I think it's placing too much faith in voters to do the right thing and follow their values and character. You would think they would learn and be less trusting of people, but they don't. They still hold out hope that people will stand erect and use the very brain inside their craniums. Bad decision based on the intelligence level of the average American and just how negatively impacted they are by social media.

Sure, but that's really just a more detailed explanation of how they aren't understanding voters. They're basically hoping that the average person looks at voting as an intellectual exercise despite endless evidence that most people don't do that.

And I'm not saying it's an easy task. Countering a movement that is inherently unserious is difficult. Sartre had a great quote about antisemites, and it totally applies to the modern American right in terms of the level of discourse:

Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.

How do you beat that? I'm not totally sure. But going with the Democrats' current plan of trying to relive the Obama years, but without having anyone who has his broad appeal, isn't going to work.

[direwolf]

I was just watching a report on CBC about all of this stuff. Pretty damn scary what's happening down there in these elections. I believe we're truly witnessing the fall of an empire in slow motion, and I'm very worried about what that means for Canada going forward. We've already seen far right Trump-style politics bleed into this country with embarrassing crap like the Freedumb convoy, and bats*** crazy lunatics like Danielle Smith in positions of power. God I hate this timeline.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by direwolf

I was just watching a report on CBC about all of this stuff. Pretty damn scary what's happening down there in these elections. I believe we're truly witnessing the fall of an empire in slow motion, and I'm very worried about what that means for Canada going forward. We've already seen far right Trump-style politics bleed into this country with embarrassing crap like the Freedumb convoy, and bats*** crazy lunatics like Danielle Smith in positions of power. God I hate this timeline.

All of those things have nothing to do with each other.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by direwolf

I was just watching a report on CBC about all of this stuff. Pretty damn scary what's happening down there in these elections. I believe we're truly witnessing the fall of an empire in slow motion, and I'm very worried about what that means for Canada going forward. We've already seen far right Trump-style politics bleed into this country with embarrassing crap like the Freedumb convoy, and bats*** crazy lunatics like Danielle Smith in positions of power. God I hate this timeline.

Up to this point at least - Canadians have rejected that type of politics. The PPC can't make a dent. In Ontario - the crazies were ejected from the PC party and formed their own parties and got smoked. The loony parties in Alberta haven't got a ton of traction.

But they have managed to get a hold of a mainstream party in Alberta - similar to the how they've taken over the Republicans in the US. So that will be a challenge.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Matata

This way Biden gets to look a saviour without really upsetting the profit-prison system. Realistically, this as close as to a victory as you could ask for. I'd bet that number gets whittled down a lot more before it actually goes into practice.

In my deepest cynicism I still was overly optimistic. No one gets out of jail:

https://www.wsj.com/articles/biden-m...on-11665520780

[Bs&Cs]

Originally Posted by Yoho

All of those things have nothing to do with each other.

Of course you'd like to think that.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I don't think it's not understanding voters, I think it's placing too much faith in voters to do the right thing and follow their values and character. You would think they would learn and be less trusting of people, but they don't. They still hold out hope that people will stand erect and use the very brain inside their craniums. Bad decision based on the intelligence level of the average American and just how negatively impacted they are by social media.

Whether through meddling by the other side, or a party just picking an extreme candidate on their own, a bad candidate only moves the needle a couple points. In a deep red or blue district, the candidate doesn't matter. In a 1-2 point swing district, then it can make a difference. If the national environment shifts that to a 3-4 point advantage, then you can easily end up with the terrible person winning.

It's the same risk of gerrymandering. A national shift can all of a sudden wipe out the safe districts that voters were pulled from and can back fire in the same way.

[Lanny_McDonald]

A couple of points is all that is needed in American politics. The real factor is driving your base to the polls. I was talking about this fact with my wife this morning as we walked the hound. Arizona is going to elect Lake and Masters, which are two of the most extreme candidates I've seen, and they will do so on the malaise that has been created by running sane candidates. Like it or not, extreme sells in this country, especially of it appeals to the base. So running a bunch of racist Christian nationalists is just good politics for the Republican party while trying to counter that with facts and sane discussion is weakness. Hobbs is going to lose to Lake because she did not want to debate her and give her a platform to spread her wackadoodle nonsense. Crazy sells especially in red states.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

I wish people like this would just be honest. Just say 'I don't care how terrible of a candidate he is, or what he's done, or if he's terrible for this state or country. I don't care. He's Republican so I'm voting for him, period.' Would be a lot easier to say.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1588178234814124034

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

I wish people like this would just be honest. Just say 'I don't care how terrible of a candidate he is, or what he's done, or if he's terrible for this state or country. I don't care. He's Republican so I'm voting for him, period.' Would be a lot easier to say.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1588178234814124034

Props to the dude holding the mic.

At the end you can see him start to chuckle at the absurdity of it all, but #### me what am embarrassment to humanity

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

I wish people like this would just be honest. Just say 'I don't care how terrible of a candidate he is, or what he's done, or if he's terrible for this state or country. I don't care. He's Republican so I'm voting for him, period.' Would be a lot easier to say.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1588178234814124034

I find these videos a bit pointless and silly. Yeah, if he believes abortion should be illegal and buys into the Republican platform, he should vote for Walker. That's the rational choice in this case, and whether he incoherently babbles himself into a corner trying to defend that choice is mostly irrelevant.

There is no reason to believe that Walker would do anything other than vote along party lines if abortion or any other topic comes up for vote.

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I find these videos a bit pointless and silly. Yeah, if he believes abortion should be illegal and buys into the Republican platform, he should vote for Walker. That's the rational choice in this case, and whether he incoherently babbles himself into a corner trying to defend that choice is mostly irrelevant.



There is no reason to believe that Walker would do anything other than vote along party lines if abortion or any other topic comes up for vote.

Hypocrisy and dumb, single issue voters are big reasons why democracy is broken

There is no fix either. Things just are going to just getting crazier until we don't recognize the world any more

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

I find these videos a bit pointless and silly. Yeah, if he believes abortion should be illegal and buys into the Republican platform, he should vote for Walker. That's the rational choice in this case, and whether he incoherently babbles himself into a corner trying to defend that choice is mostly irrelevant.

He says it's murder. Murder in the U.S. is a capital offense which in some states can lead to the death penalty.

Not only is he ok with Walker paying for abortions if the allegations are true, he's willing to vote him into the U.S. Senate. In his mind, a murderer should be voted into the Senate........as long as he's Republican.

Pointless? Nah.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

He says it's murder. Murder in the U.S. is a capital offense which in some states can lead to the death penalty.

Not only is he ok with Walker paying for abortions if the allegations are true, he's willing to vote him into the U.S. Senate. In his mind, a murderer should be voted into the Senate........as long as he's Republican.

Pointless? Nah.

Meh, he's an empty suit. I'd vote for a murderer vs a Republican for Senate under most circumstances. I wouldn't be happy he was the candidate and would be fine with him being removed and imprisoned if he was guilty, but all that is better voting to give the Republicans the Senate which would hurt a whole lot more people's lives in my eyes.

Governor, I might think twice, but a Senate that is likely to be 50/50 or 51/49, then yeah, no chance I would consider a Republican in this climate.

I am far more annoyed at people who vote (or abstain) against their own best interests and then are surprised or upset when bad things happen as a result.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

I wish people like this would just be honest. Just say 'I don't care how terrible of a candidate he is, or what he's done, or if he's terrible for this state or country. I don't care. He's Republican so I'm voting for him, period.' Would be a lot easier to say.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1588178234814124034

The R party line that abortion is a decision between a women, her doctor and a local politician may be the single stupidest statement I have ever heard. It's baffling

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by EldrickOnIce

The R party line that abortion is a decision between a women, her doctor and a local politician may be the single stupidest statement I have ever heard. It's baffling

The Doctor Oz credo.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Meh, he's an empty suit. I'd vote for a murderer vs a Republican for Senate under most circumstances.

What an insane thing to say. You can vote for neither or an independent in those circumstances. This is full-blown Blue MAGA.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by rubecube

What an insane thing to say. You can vote for neither or an independent in those circumstances. This is full-blown Blue MAGA.

Unless the Independent had a fighting chance, doing either of those things is helping the Republicans win the senate. Control of the senate is far more consequential to everyone's lives than who the individual senator is. A MAGA supports Trump no matter what. I'd be fine voting someone in and letting them get impeached or jailed if that was justified. Giving the senate to the Republicans because the Democrat candidate sucks is not rational, IMO. The time for fighting that is in the primaries.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Unless the Independent had a fighting chance, doing either of those things is helping the Republicans win the senate. Control of the senate is far more consequential to everyone's lives than who the individual senator is. A MAGA supports Trump no matter what. I'd be fine voting someone in and letting them get impeached or jailed if that was justified. Giving the senate to the Republicans because the Democrat candidate sucks is not rational, IMO. The time for fighting that is in the primaries.

So where do you draw the line? If the Democrat was a convicted pedophile who had molested dozens of kids, you'd still be like "well the Senate is more important! #### them kids!"