Israel declares war on Hamas

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

It's a big thread, it would be easier for you to show me where you don't.

That's what I thought. If you can’t back up a claim then don't say it.

I found the video pepsifree was talking about but it was removed for violating youtube's terms and services for hate. Again, you're a ball of hate and shouldn't be lecturing anyone on what hate is.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

You only see what you want to see. Is this really the first you are reading about this? Honestly man, go do some research with an open mind.

I did the research and the land was definitely bought, not stolen. "Land theft" is a major lie by pro-palestine crowd, that is looking clueless now that their lies are exposed.

[Pointman]

During the first of these, extending from 1880 to 1920, the Jews were small landowners, and the amount of land they owned was not very large compared with that of the Palestine Arab majority. 2/ The main feature of the second period, which began soon after the Balfour Declaration of 1917 and extends from 1921 to 1947, is the establishment of Jewish settlements, the Kibbutzim, with the encouragement of such Jewish institutions as the Palestine Jewish Colonization Association,* the Palestine Land Development Company and the Jewish National Fund. The purpose of these three institutions was to transfer the Jewish populations of Europe to Palestine and provide them with facilities, homes, jobs and especially land in the new host country. It has been estimated that by about June 1947, the Jewish minority in Palestine had taken over 1,850,000 dunams** out of a total of 13 million dunams, mainly as a result of transactions between the above-mentioned Jewish institutions and the big Arab landowners of Palestine

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-208638/


Anyone who says anything about "stealing land" should be promptly labeled as clueless. You have no idea what you are talking about. The land was clearly purchased from Arab landowners. The Israel state was created by British Empire, the legal owner of the statehood in the land. As such they were perfectly entitled to create an Israel state the way they saw fit. British were under no obligation to consult Arabian population - who continued to live and own their lands after formation of Israel. In fact, two millions of them still live in Israel today. I wasn't consulted when USSR fell apart either. That's how statehood works.

The way Israel was created is way more clean and legal than, say, Canada. Or Russia for that matter.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Pointman

You should stop talking about other posters and start talking about the topic, if you have any substance to add.

No.

I will continue to highlight the sick warped minds of posters like yourself and Azure who will go above and beyond in order to excuse and defend the mass murder of innocents.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Pointman

During the first of these, extending from 1880 to 1920, the Jews were small landowners, and the amount of land they owned was not very large compared with that of the Palestine Arab majority. 2/ The main feature of the second period, which began soon after the Balfour Declaration of 1917 and extends from 1921 to 1947, is the establishment of Jewish settlements, the Kibbutzim, with the encouragement of such Jewish institutions as the Palestine Jewish Colonization Association,* the Palestine Land Development Company and the Jewish National Fund. The purpose of these three institutions was to transfer the Jewish populations of Europe to Palestine and provide them with facilities, homes, jobs and especially land in the new host country. It has been estimated that by about June 1947, the Jewish minority in Palestine had taken over 1,850,000 dunams** out of a total of 13 million dunams, mainly as a result of transactions between the above-mentioned Jewish institutions and the big Arab landowners of Palestine

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-208638/


Anyone who says anything about "stealing land" should be promptly labeled as clueless. You have no idea what you are talking about. The land was clearly purchased from Arab landowners. The Israel state was created by British Empire, the legal owner of the statehood in the land. As such they were perfectly entitled to create an Israel state the way they saw fit. British were under no obligation to consult Arabian population - who continued to live and own their lands after formation of Israel. In fact, two millions of them still live in Israel today. I wasn't consulted when USSR fell apart either. That's how statehood works.

The way Israel was created is way more clean and legal than, say, Canada. Or Russia for that matter.

Which set of boarders for Israel is the one you recognize? 48? 67? Another one? It would be difficult for someone to answer your question in a way that would satisfy you without you first defining your position on which map of Israel should be used to answer the question.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

Prisoners aren't hostages, the Israeli hostages haven't done anything illegal, the same can't be said about Palestinian prisoners.

Your ignorant statement reeks of bigotry.

When you hold someone against their wishes without any sort of charge or trial they are essentially a hostage. Why don't you enlighten us how you are so sure these "prisoners" as you call them have all committed illegal acts.

As of November 1, Israeli authorities held nearly 7,000 Palestinians from the occupied territory in detention for alleged security offenses, according to the Israeli human rights organization HaMoked. Far more Palestinians have been arrested since the October 7 attacks in Israel than have been released in the last week. Among those being held are dozens of women and scores of children.

The majority have never been convicted of a crime, including more than 2,000 of them being held in administrative detention, in which the Israeli military detains a person without charge or trial. Such detention can be renewed indefinitely based on secret information, which the detainee is not allowed to see. Administrative detainees are held on the presumption that they might commit an offense at some point in the future. Israeli authorities have held children, human rights defenders and Palestinian political activists, among others, in administrative detention, often for prolonged periods.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/29/...available-swap

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by GGG

Which set of boarders for Israel is the one you recognize? 48? 67? Another one? It would be difficult for someone to answer your question in a way that would satisfy you without you first defining your position on which map of Israel should be used to answer the question.

Wait. What "stealing land" has to do with borders?

There are two different layers here. One is owning the land like you own your house. Like a land lord. You have a title and the house is yours.

Second level is a country. You live in a country, but you don't really own it. At the moment of the formation of Israel, Palestinians lived in British Empire. Before that they lived in Ottoman empire. There never ever was a Palestinian state.

So, on landowners level, the land was bought. Those Arabs, who didn't want to sell, just continued to live on their land, albeit in a new state. They still live there. My kids played soccer with their kids yesterday. Their land was never stolen.

On statehood level, it was never their country. Never. You can't steal something that never existed at the first place. British held the rights to statehood and they gave it to Israelis. It was perfectly their right. The statehood was never stolen either.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Zary's-Mustache

That's what I thought. If you can’t back up a claim then don't say it.

I found the video pepsifree was talking about but it was removed for violating youtube's terms and services for hate. Again, you're a ball of hate and shouldn't be lecturing anyone on what hate is.

You found a video that was removed?

That's rich

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Your ignorant statement reeks of bigotry.

When you hold someone against their wishes without any sort of charge or trial they are essentially a hostage. Why don't you enlighten us how you are so sure these "prisoners" as you call them have all committed illegal acts.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/11/29/...available-swap

It's West Bank. Those are not even under Hamas. I asked for Gaza/Hamas people that are allegedly being held by Israelis.

[Bagor]

Wtf are you even talking about? I wasn't even responding to you.

But you can go ahead and post, with sources anything that refutes the claim made in the post.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Wtf are you even talking about? I wasn't even responding to you.

But you can go ahead and post, with sources anything that refutes the claim made in the post.

Gaza is not Palestine state. Gaza is a rebel breakaway faction, that overthrew Palestinian Authorities and elected Hamas to rule them. That's why even Palestinian authorities hate Gazans and supported the blockade enforced by Israel and Egypt. The thing that most people miss is that Gaza wants nothing to do with Palestinian state. They want there own independent Gaza. Or, even better, a complete control by Hamas over both Israeli and Palestinian authorities.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fata...Hamas_conflict


For example:

The 2009 Hamas political violence took place in the Gaza Strip during and after the 2008–2009 Israel–Gaza conflict. A series of violent acts, ranging from physical assaults, torture, and executions of Palestinians, suspected of collaboration with the Israel Defense Forces, as well as members of the Fatah political party, occurred. According to Human Rights Watch, at least 32 people were killed by these attacks: 18 during the conflict and 14 afterward, and several dozen more were maimed, many by shots to the legs.


That's how Gazans treat Palestinians.


Also this:

the midst of negotiations to resolve the 2014 Israel–Gaza conflict, the Shin Bet revealed an alleged plot by Hamas to depose Fatah in the West Bank. This would be achieved by deploying Hamas cells around the West Bank to incite a third intifada and overwhelm Palestinian Authority forces. More than 90 people were arrested. President Abbas said the plot was "a grave threat to the unity of the Palestinian people and its future

[Zary's-Mustache]

Brave presidential Jewish candidate calls it like it is. A genocide.

https://youtu.be/ysZVQpTJVH8?si=Ezd368UVcx43wekH

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Long irrelevant rant?

Again. Wtf are you rambling about?

What has that all got to do with the fact that Israel has been holding Palestinians hostages in their prisons?

No limits to their cruelty.

The Israel Defense Forces and the Israel Prison Authority arrested and imprisoned for almost two months an 82-year-old Gaza woman who suffers from Alzheimer's disease. She was jailed under the Incarceration of Unlawful Combatants Law. Because she was considered an unlawful combatant

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/...f-73bbc94d0000

But according to the narrow mind of Snuffleupagus being that she was a) Palestinian and b) in an Israeli prison it therefore goes without saying that she is clearly there on legitimate grounds having clearly committed an illegal act.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

You found a video that was removed?

That's rich

I actually found a lot more than that searching for it and it's clear you're just a sad scared hateful human being who hates Muslims and other religions because you're scared of the immigrant boogeyman who is gonna take over our country.

At least my little searching escapade made me understand how hateful of a person you really are and not to take your comments that seriously.

[Doctorfever]

So, I am still learning lots about the history of this area and the history of the conflict.

Was the land Israel is on stolen?

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

So,

Ahhh... You're back. Dodging questions.
You ran off without answering your own question.

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Ahhh the evidence.

So Let’s really try and turn this discussion around. Haha.

Are you ok with your tax dollars funding the UNRWA? Do you think that is money well spent?

So. Today. Presently. Months later. Given zero of the allegations against them have been proven are you ok with your tax dollars (if you actually contribute to the economy) funding UNRWA?

[Fuzz]

An Israeli airstrike triggered a massive blaze killing 45 people in a tent camp in the Gaza city of Rafah, officials said on Monday, prompting an outcry from global leaders who urged the implementation of an International Court of Justice ruling to halt Israel's assault.


In scenes grimly familiar from a war in its eighth month, Palestinian families rushed to hospitals to prepare their dead for burial after the strike late on Sunday night set tents and rickety shelters ablaze.

Women wept and men held prayers beside bodies in shrouds.

"The whole world is witnessing Rafah getting burnt up by Israel and no one is doing anything to stop it," Bassam, a Rafah resident, said via a chat app, of the strike in an area of western Rafah that had been designated a safe zone.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel...215629?cmp=rss


Murder, terrorism, genocide...pick your descriptor. Go ahead and justify it in your head if you can. I know some here will.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Ahhh... You're back. Dodging questions.
You ran off without answering your own question.



So. Today. Presently. Months later. Given zero of the allegations against them have been proven are you ok with your tax dollars (if you actually contribute to the economy) funding UNRWA?

Yes.

You want to answer my question now? I am actually trying to learn about the history here, keeping an open mind. Not trying to make a gotcha.

[Zary's-Mustache]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Yes.

You want to answer my question now? I am actually trying to learn about the history here, keeping an open mind. Not trying to make a gotcha.

CP isn't a history site...you can use Google to do some research if you're actually serious about learning about the history. Something tells me you're not actually looking for history. You have 100+ posts in this thread and are NOW looking to learn about the history?

The land Israel is on is 100% stolen but so is Canada's land.

This doesn't mean that israel should cease to exist. Israel should exist and Palestine should also exist as it's own state. The people of Israel are not going anywhere and deserve to live in peace and the Palestinian people deserve to live in peace no matter the history. Israel needs to stop the expanding of settlements and stop the indiscrimate killing of innocent civilians.

It really isn't that complicated.

[Doctorfever]

CP is a discussion board. We are allowed to discuss things that happened in the past.

I have been interested in the history of this conflict since it has started being discussed in this thread. Sliver and others have posted really good information.

If you don’t have any relevant information you don’t have to comment. It really isn’t that complicated.