Phaneuf,Sjostrom,Aulie traded to leafs for Hagman,Stajan,Mayers,White

[Sly]

When's the last time a team has won the Stanley Cup by making a major shake up at around mid-season?

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Patrick

Iginla has one of the best reputations in the league. Very few players would be turned off if Iginla has big pull within an organization.

I agree that Iginla is an asset when you need him to call up a free agent and sell the team; in that role he's subservient to the needs of management. But bottom line is that Iginla is an on-ice player. His role is not to try and be the manager as well.

As a player, he can pout and be unhappy with the other players on the team. However, he does not have the proper point of view to assess the situation objectively, meaning that he'll never point the finger at himself (whether deserved or not).

That means that he should not be making choices about whether *current* players stay or leave.


I realize there is plenty of conjecture in my post regarding the impact that Iginla and Regehr may have on decisions. However, it is not lost upon me that both have had subpar, inconsistent seasons. It is simple human nature for them to point the finger at someone else.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by psicodude

The funny thing is that most Flames fans are pissed, and most Toronto fans are as well. Must mean it was a fair trade.

Oh, and I need a new sig now.

I don't know what Leafs fans you're listening to, but I'm living in Toronto, just came back from playing a game at the Leafs practice rink here and Brian Burke's statue is about to be resurrected in front as the savior of the franchise. Just passing passing people in the hallways, and hearing the buzz was enough to know it was a lopsided deal. Fack.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by thesmugger

Finally saw Dion's interview. Does not look happy at all about the trade. It was obvious he was not working out here. Maybe this is something that will finally humble him. He's shown that he has all the tools to be a very good player. I don't think anyone will be surprised to see him become a 60 point player constantly.

How is this obvious? If Phaneuf is was not working out here, then neither is Regehr, Sarich or Bouwmeester, because not one of them has lived up to their contracts this season.

I like the route Sutter went in picking up 4 guys instead of landing some sort of big fish (Marleau type). If Jokinen gets it going JayBo starts producing more and these guys can step up their play Calgary can be a cup countener epecially with the way Kipper is playing.

if Jokinen gets going? The season is 2/3 over and he hasn't gotten going, the guy is a complete bust. Why is it that people will say that Phaneuf wasn't working out, but the rest of our underachieving team is fine?

[Newfieflamefan]

McKenzie's take:

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/?id=308500

[Steve Bozek]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I don't think he is a 1st liner... He has only socred more than 40 points twice (42 and 41). That just isn't first line production. He's more like Bourque or Langkow, and being 30, I wouldn't expect him to be on the rise.

The winner of this trade is obviously TO, in that they have the best player in the deal and will have him for several years to come. Add to that that if he's at all like most young defencemen, he's going to get even better.

Calgary, on the other hand, gets an end-of-season fix - much needed offence from new forwards that, at best, would be 2nd or 3rd line on most other teams- but on our team, they will be an improvement in goal scoring. One wonders how the new forwards will perform with Brent's defensive prorogram, however.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Not really shocked about this - given all the smoke that was going around this team, but I'm just wondering if the Flames traded the wrong core player. Phaneuf was probably one of our most consistent core players this season. He was better than Iginla and Regehr on a nightly basis. I sincerely hope it wasn't those two as some have speculated in this thread, as the reasons behind it. If it was, those two should be the ones looking in the mirror and ask some serious questions about how they've played this season. Phaneuf on a lot of nights played with a fire that neither of those 2 guys have anymore.

they said it on the Fan960 though, who could you move? Kiprusoff isn't the problem and is the Flames best player, moving him would be suicide. and if fans get up in arms like this about Phaneuf being traded, imagine the fallout if Iginla were ever moved. that left you with Regehr and Phaneuf. Regehr has a NMC and his trade value even if he did wave that would be minimal. to get the required shake up for this team Phaneuf was the only logical choice to be moved

the only thing i'm disappointed in with this trade is the lack of any building blocks coming back. in a year where the Flames have no first round pick, you'd think that would have been Sutter's top priorities when he made the decision to trade Phaneuf. Sutter keeps talking about some mythical 5 year plan, but he never builds for the future. ever since he got here it's been a win now mentality with a group that has obviously not been ready for that

[FanIn80]

This guy on the radio right now has me JACKED.

McGrattan, Prust and Mayers on a line together...

[Leon]

Originally Posted by fleury

I don't know what Leafs fans you're listening to, but I'm living in Toronto, just came back from playing a game at the Leafs practice rink here and Brian Burke's statue is about to be resurrected in front as the savior of the franchise. Just passing passing people in the hallways, and hearing the buzz was enough to know it was a lopsided deal. Fack.

Right, because Toronto fans are a good measure of how 'good' the trade deal was...

[thesmugger]

Originally Posted by Ark2

How is this obvious? If Phaneuf is was not working out here, then neither is Regehr, Sarich or Bouwmeester, because not one of them has lived up to their contracts this season.



if Jokinen gets going? The season is 2/3 over and he hasn't gotten going, the guy is a complete bust. Why is it that people will say that Phaneuf wasn't working out, but the rest of our underachieving team is fine?

It's obvious because he got traded. Not sure if anything can be more clear than that. B.Sutter and D.Sutter obviously communicate what goes on in
the dressing room. If it was one of the others you suggested it would have been them getting shipped out not Dion.

Yup, Sutter has brought in two guys (Stajan,Hagman) who might be able to get Jokinen going. I see this as his last chance, however.

[Kipper is King]

From someone on HFboards:

What number will Phanuef wear?

-3

[Racki]

Anyone think that Darryl uses our surplus of forwards to land a Paul Kariya type?

[Dr. Doom]

Originally Posted by Newfieflamefan

McKenzie's take:

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/?id=308500

And in essence, there you have it...

The Toronto media already questioning Phaneuf. Poor guy doesn't stand a chance in hell:

"Those who watch Phaneuf regularly say he continues to struggle in terms of being able to play the game without the puck. And that when the Flames leaned on Phaneuf to be better defensively, he bristled at the notion that he needed to change his game. Some might say it's an ego issue, that Dion is happy being Dion and with how he plays and doesn't like being told otherwise. Others would say he's simply not good at that defensive aspect of the game and what you see is what you get.'

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by noel

Right, because Toronto fans are a good measure of how 'good' the trade deal was...

LOL like Flames fans are any better? At any rate, he was responding to a poster that said Leafs fans are upset about this trade. I live just outside of TO and all my Leafs fans friends are pretty damn excited.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by fleury

I don't know what Leafs fans you're listening to, but I'm living in Toronto, just came back from playing a game at the Leafs practice rink here and Brian Burke's statue is about to be resurrected in front as the savior of the franchise. Just passing passing people in the hallways, and hearing the buzz was enough to know it was a lopsided deal. Fack.

Really. I've heard two cases from Leafs fans:
- That it was an amazing deal and that Burke should be worshipped or,
- Burke really choked and that Phaneuf will never be any good

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by Newfieflamefan

McKenzie's take:

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/?id=308500

Best analysis i've heard all day, mostly because he put on paper basically what i've been thinking about this trade, so any analysis that agrees with me sounds pretty good haha

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by Newfieflamefan

McKenzie's take:

http://www.tsn.ca/columnists/?id=308500

Great points by McKenzie, he's bang on here. This bit is very important to consider as well...

Although it should be pointed out that in addition to the tangible assets Calgary received from Toronto, more than $4 million in available cap space also came the Flames' way and they are now positioned to make more moves should they deem them necessary. That factor cannot be overlooked.

[Gundo]

Noon Jan. 30 on Calgary Puck: Something big has to happen to this team, we need a shake up of sorts, trade (insert random name here), strip iggy of the c.

Noonish Jan 31. on Calgary Puck: SOMETHING BIG HAS HAPPENED AND MOST OF US DONT LIKE IT, WE WANT SUTTERS HEAD!!!!!!!!!!!

I love this site.

[hwy19man]

This is a blockbuster of a major proportions. Sutter obviously wanted to shake it up and boy did he ever.

Eric Duhatschek comments and compares this trade to the 1992 Flames\Leafs trade. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/burke-trumps-sutter-in-flames-leafs-deal/article1450924/

[McG]

i was thinking about this. we can debate at length (34 pages and a couple of server lockdowns already) about how good or bad this trade is for the flames. for those that don't think this is shades of gilmour/leeman, i am happy for you because you are trading in the currency of sports fans...hope. i respect that because that is a great place to be. unfortunately, i had "hope" for the leeman/gilmour trade at the time, although i secretly feared the worst.

all of the sutter spin has long since gotten old. the only way that the flames win this deal is if we get out of the first round, this year. i think sutter is under the gun alot and this deal will be sutter's signature deal...either way. i know what i think. i always remind myself that sutter built the sharks, but it took doug wilson to really make that team a consistent threat in the west. the lack of a draft pick coming back, any draft pick, tells me just how desperate sutter is.

i will tell you who didn't lose today. the leafs. the bruins. the leafs got rid of players that had them near the bottom of the league. they replaced them with the best player in the trade. let me say that again. phaneuf in a bad year was still the best player in the deal. all of the justification for 2nd line players etc on a last place team coming to the flames... 2 of the players are UFAs, and could be signed for no player cost in the off season. white is an rfa. hagman is an upgrade on sjostrom. the leafs won't be worse because they lost these players. they are already at the bottom. its like saying that we want oiler 2nd and 3rd line players because they will be better with us. the bruins win for obvious reasons. funnily enough...the leafs also win by tanking. all of their picks that they didn't trade just got confirmed. the leafs kept what would be considered their core today. kessel, schenn, kaberle; they dumped 2 UFAs, an RFA, and a 30 year old. they got the best player in the deal in a bad season. they got the best prospect. they got the most signed contracts.

once i got over the shock of trading phaneuf, i guess i understand why we had to make the trade. what i don't understand is the complete lack of return that we got.

we talk about cap room, and the potential of using that. and yet, we dismiss the potential of phaneuf.

if we don't get out of the first round this season, sutter should be fired. there is no future to this deal for the flames. if we get out of the first round, sutter can stay.

did the flames win this trade? maybe, maybe not.

did the leafs win this trade? they absolutely did not lose this trade.

i have made excuses for the flames because as a fan that is my right. i guess it is also my right to question the return that we got on this trade.