The Blue Jays Thread: 2008 Season

[GirlySports]

Wow! 7-1! Jays might not score again for a week!

[SteveToms]

Rios with a Homerun!

[Caged Great]

Wells scores, Stairs on 3rd 0 out.

[Caged Great]

9-1 Rolen with a double

[JayP]

11-1 after 2.

Gatson looks like he's doing something to turn these guys around. Their approach at the plate is much different than under Gibbons.

[Sylvanfan]

3 homeruns in a game (might be 4 now), I'm stunned.

I don't think they've even been averaging 3 a week to this point in the season are they?

[ShaolinFlame]

I can hear the twighlight zone music in the background.

What the heck is going on out there. I tune in for Dunngate and end up with MASH.

[Bobblehead]

And more Dunn controversy.

"I talked to him [Dunn] on Saturday," Ricciardi said before last night's game. "He called me back. I don't know if he accepted my apology. But I did apologize."

Except Dunn told MLB.com that he didn't speak to Ricciardi.

"Not true," Dunn said of Ricciardi's pregame comment. "One million per cent."

Ricciardi was livid when Dunn's comment was relayed to him. He took the call on Saturday night, he said, while he was in Pittsburgh. Sitting next to him were director of security Ron Sandelli and assistant GM Alex Anthopoulos.

"If it's not him, then it's some prank," Ricciardi said. "But I don't know how the person would get my cellular phone number. I mean, I don't even give it out to you guys [the press]."

So is this a Dunn deal or what?

"I'm so sick and tired of this, foremost, but the real truth is, no, I have not talked to him," Dunn said after the game, clearly exasperated. "Again, I'm not going to go out of my way to get an apology from a guy I don't even know. No, it didn't happen and I hope this is the last time I have to talk about it. I'm sick and tired of it."

But about that phone call …

"No," Dunn said, "I mean, no. I didn't. I mean, if he said he talked to me, it was a lie … it's stupid. I don't get it. I got more important things to worry about than some guy I don't know."

http://www.globesports.com/servlet/s...l_gam_mostview

[moon]

Originally Posted by JayP

You keep saying the Jays hitters are "in decline" when all of them are under 34 with the exception of Stairs. Please explain to me how Rios, Wells, Hill, and Overbay are all in decline. Rolen is only 33 too and shouldn't be seeing massive dips off his OPS just yet. Your decline argument might have some weight if there were small dips in OPS, but most of the team is .075+ points below their career average.

Decline may not be the best term for it, but just because they are not over 34 does not mean their skills cannot be trailing off. As mentioned before Mench, Wilkerson, Stairs, Stewart were not exactly world beaters prior to the season. The others haven't been tearing the leather off the ball either other than in a career year for each. Rolen has had shoulder problems and was let go by St. Louis for more than just his attitude.

Overbay is in decline because his stats have been poor for two years in a row. Take out his career year his first year in TO and he is on track with what he has done over his career.

Rolen as mentioned is in decline because of health issues he has had in the past.

Hill injury problems this year can't predict that, but I wonder if people expect the player he has been or the potential superstar that TO media like to trump him up as.

Wells seems to be better than last season and not far off from a few other seasons as well. He has shown over his career that he is not a consistent hitter so his poor season can't be all that surprising.

In my view Rios has not had a season that is good enough to expect him not to run into trouble in his career. He is a good hitter but certainly not good enough to not expect him to have troubles either.

My main remains that the Blue Jays hitting trouble is not that surprising to many people and was predicted by people in the media. Outside of TO I am not sure there are a lot of people who are surprised with the record that the Jays have.

Here's a quote from Mike Wilner (radio broadcast) talking about Ernie Whitt's arrogance:

It doesn't look good on Whitt, but still don't see why Ricciardi wouldn't just take the high road? I don't get what he gets by being the bigger ###### bag in the situation.

Also, I would think consider how much of a homer and Jays shill Wilner is that any story form him has to be taken with an enormous grain of salt.

Anyways congrats on the big win tonight perhaps some of those superstar hitters will eventually get over the 6 HR mark!

[JayP]

Overbay is in decline because his stats have been poor for two years in a row. Take out his career year his first year in TO and he is on track with what he has done over his career.

Wrong. Overbay's OPS last season was a brutal .706. In the his only three seasons prior to joining the Jays, he put up OPS's of .767 (in half a season as a rookie), .863, and .816. His OPS is at .792 now, but was at .775 prior to last night. That's barely better than his rookie numbers and hardly on track with his career numbers.

Rolen as mentioned is in decline because of health issues he has had in the past.

Have we heard a peep about those health issues this season? The seasons where Rolen's numbers have dropped have been years where he missed significant time due to injury and was bothered by it all year. I know he was hurt at the start of the year, but that was a freak finger injury and not the shoulder injuries that would have him missing games every other week.

Hill injury problems this year can't predict that, but I wonder if people expect the player he has been or the potential superstar that TO media like to trump him up as.

The guy has a .685 OPS. I don't see how expecting much better than that is expecting a "potential superstar". His injury problems have nothing to do with his numbers either seeing how they were all put up before the concussion.

Wells seems to be better than last season and not far off from a few other seasons as well. He has shown over his career that he is not a consistent hitter so his poor season can't be all that surprising.

Wells' numbers have been up and down all his career, but he always follows poor years up with great ones.

In my view Rios has not had a season that is good enough to expect him not to run into trouble in his career. He is a good hitter but certainly not good enough to not expect him to have troubles either.

Troubles are hitting a little below expectations. Rios OPS has been hovering around .700 for most of the season. That's not even great production from your shortshop, let alone a corner outfielder.

My main remains that the Blue Jays hitting trouble is not that surprising to many people and was predicted by people in the media. Outside of TO I am not sure there are a lot of people who are surprised with the record that the Jays have.

Let's see some proof of these outside sources predicting the Jays to be one of the worst offense teams in baseball and that all of their hitters (including the guys in their prime) would hit well below both expectations and career averages.

It doesn't look good on Whitt, but still don't see why Ricciardi wouldn't just take the high road? I don't get what he gets by being the bigger ###### bag in the situation.

Also, I would think consider how much of a homer and Jays shill Wilner is that any story form him has to be taken with an enormous grain of salt.

Riccardi is a ###### bag. That's who he is. He's one of the few GMs in sport who will actually say what's on his mind (for better or worse).

And I don't see why Whitt keeps getting a free pass. Just because the guy managed team Canada doesn't mean he's not an arrogant jerk. It sounds to me like he expected to be handed the manager job even though the guy has very little experience at managing.

[SportsJunky]

Wow, Doc was getting knocked around a bit 5-0 but the Jays have found their stroke the last two games and it is now 5-4 in the 3rd.

[Machiavelli]

Well, they tied it 5-5 but failed to move ahead in the 7th inning when they left all the runners stranded with the bases loaded and no outs.

Wolfe promptly walked the first two batters in the 10th, one of whom scored off Carlson.

The Jays lose 6-5 and still have yet to win a walk-off this season, and are now 0-5 in extra-inning games at home. Pathetic.

[Scrambler]

Another day, another loss

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by JayP

Wells' numbers have been up and down all his career, but he always follows poor years up with great ones.

This will be Wells 7th full season with the Jays. He has had 2 really good ones in his career (sorry, they simply weren't great).

1 terrible one and 3 average ones (soon to be 4 unless he picks it up).

[moon]

Originally Posted by JayP

Wrong. Overbay's OPS last season was a brutal .706. In the his only three seasons prior to joining the Jays, he put up OPS's of .767 (in half a season as a rookie), .863, and .816. His OPS is at .792 now, but was at .775 prior to last night. That's barely better than his rookie numbers and hardly on track with his career numbers.



Have we heard a peep about those health issues this season? The seasons where Rolen's numbers have dropped have been years where he missed significant time due to injury and was bothered by it all year. I know he was hurt at the start of the year, but that was a freak finger injury and not the shoulder injuries that would have him missing games every other week.



The guy has a .685 OPS. I don't see how expecting much better than that is expecting a "potential superstar". His injury problems have nothing to do with his numbers either seeing how they were all put up before the concussion.



Wells' numbers have been up and down all his career, but he always follows poor years up with great ones.



Troubles are hitting a little below expectations. Rios OPS has been hovering around .700 for most of the season. That's not even great production from your shortshop, let alone a corner outfielder.



Let's see some proof of these outside sources predicting the Jays to be one of the worst offense teams in baseball and that all of their hitters (including the guys in their prime) would hit well below both expectations and career averages.



Riccardi is a ###### bag. That's who he is. He's one of the few GMs in sport who will actually say what's on his mind (for better or worse).

And I don't see why Whitt keeps getting a free pass. Just because the guy managed team Canada doesn't mean he's not an arrogant jerk. It sounds to me like he expected to be handed the manager job even though the guy has very little experience at managing.

We could go back and forth on this issue all year long so instead of going over each point I will say what I have been saying all along for various reasons whether it be health, age, skill it isn't surprising that many of the Jays are having down years. The simple fact is that overall the team is just not that good of hitters. Take away most of the guys top years and it is an average to below average hitting team.

I will look for some of those pre-season predictions when I have the time but with limited internet access at work it may take a day or two. I do know that there was a lot of whining from the Primetime Sports homers about many predictions.

I don't think Whitt should or is getting a free pass. My only contention with the issue is that Riccardi could have let it go but instead took another opportunity to make himself look like an ass, and in my view he doesn't have the track record, especially in TO to get be able to afford to do that crap. He has shown himself to be a bottom tier GM and coupling that with being an ass isn't exactly the best way to stay a GM or get re-hired in the future.

[ricoFlame]

Rolen with a homer in the 2nd inning. 2-0 jays. good start tonight.

[ShaolinFlame]

Overbay drives in two, 5-0 Jays.

I guess when there are two out it is impossible to hit into a double play!

[Machiavelli]

I thought the Jays were gonna get owned by Volquez.

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

I thought the Jays were gonna get owned by Volquez.

just chased him on a double by Rolen. 7-1 jays. nice.

[ricoFlame]

does cito have something against eckstein? benched for 5 straight. what the hell is going on there?