5 killed on Macleod trail crash - Update: GUILTY!

[Erick Estrada]

I guess the blueprint for murder has been set with this. If you want someone dead don't bash their head in with a bat or gun them down as you could get serious time for that, simply have a couple drinks, get behind the wheel, run them over and claim it was an accident. Mission accomplished and your stay in prison is short. Well worth it for some I'm sure.

[St. Pats]

We need a CP Vigilante group to deal out some actual justice. Our idiotic system for dealing with pieces of crap surely does NOT do so. He should be lined up against a wall somewhere and shot.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by St. Pats

We need a CP Vigilante group to deal out some actual justice. Our idiotic system for dealing with pieces of crap surely does NOT do so. He should be lined up against a wall somewhere and shot.

You live in Texas or something right?

[CaptainCrunch]

I don't really believe in Vigilant justice, its just not the right thing to do.

However you hope that his conscience haunts him for the rest of his life, However it just doesn't seem to feel like he's taken responsibility for essentially murdering 5 people and that's the tragedy.

On a cosmic scale, he's worthless scum and not worth one of the 5 people that he took out.

I would have hoped that the parole board had good reason to give him parole after such a short sentence, maybe he showed real remorse, or attended a bunch of classes in jail or something.

As I get older the whole fire and brimestone need for message board revenge has faded and I've certainly become jaded about the state of man's ability to do inhuman things. I'm too tired fantasize that mob justice would accomplish anything, or that karma would take care of this.

I believe that a large percentage of criminals laugh at our historical, short sentence hug a thug justice system mentality. I believe that most people convicted of crimes only apologize to their victims because it makes them look better in front of a gullible judge and gets them a reduced sentence. I believe that most of the people that end up in Canadian Prisons laugh about it, they get to vote, they get good meals and T.V. and in some cases golf games and BBQ's etc.

Its just frackin disheartening that this guy got drunk killed a family and his first thought was to not rush to their aid, but to destroy evidence, and then he constantly made excuses and then cried about his fate.

I read earlier this week about the 15 year old boy who has had something like 100 violent crimes and convictions and his dad had the nerve to sit there and state that he's a good boy that's made some mistakes and then shifted the blame to the police. Get real, your kid is a psychopath and you should be doing more.

I think if you have conduct like our favorite drunk driver where you don't show compassion to your victim, destroy evidence and generally act like scum we should be bringing back short hard labour sentences. I believe if you commit a violent crime we'll do everything we can to fix you, but if you commit another one you never get out. I believe people that molest children or commit sexual based crimes should never ever get out. I believe that our justice system does a disservice to the victims, I think our justice system does a disservice to the criminal by letting them believe that what they did in the grand scheme of things is about you and not what you did and that its really not that serious. I believe that the justice system does a piss poor job of protecting the public.

This is a rant and its all over the place, but I'm just tired of reading about guys like drunky getting out early without showing remorse. I get tired or reading stories that end with Billy Bob Numchucks was arrested at the scene, he had four previous violent convictions on his record.

Justice certainly needs to have a compassionate element where we work on the criminals reasons for following a life of crime, but without the punative punishment element, without taking public safety into account, without taking the concept of victim rights into account, all we get is what we have now, a soft hearted hugging cricle of justice system.

I hope this guy never gets to drive again,but I have a funny feeling that in a few years we'll be reading about this guy again after he plows through another car while drunk.

.

[Kiran403]

Why is that death caused by drunk driving is not treated the same under the criminal code as other types of murder? You want to toughen up drunk driving laws? Make sentencing for deaths caused by drunk driving the same as regular murder. Serious injuries to victims hurt by drunk driving should be treated as aggravated assault.

[mykalberta]

We sure dont live in a place that actually punishes people properly for their actions.

Deaths via drunk driving should be treated as Second Degree Murder.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

We sure dont live in a place that actually punishes people properly for their actions.

Deaths via drunk driving should be treated as Second Degree Murder.

Strongly disagree. Murder, either first or second, implies intent. You can't go changing definition based on emotional plea. It's what separates our legal system from a place like Afghanistan

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Strongly disagree. Murder, either first or second, implies intent. You can't go changing definition based on emotional plea. It's what separates our legal system from a place like Afghanistan

Well you can classify whatever you want as murder, the need for intent is a common law thing (there are other ways to get to murder as well), and we're not bound to hold that definition forever. I think the better choice would be to raise the punishment rather than re-categorize the offense, but either one would work.

[rayne008]

Obviously no length or type of punishment will ever be enough for the people related to the victims of this stupidly preventable accident.

But the one thing the punishment has to accomplish (IMO) is be an absolute deterrent to others to not drink and drive.

I would say 20 years in jail, with yearly videos of him describing his day to day life, and the remorse he feels in making an horribly tragic decision. Make this video required viewing to anyone getting their licence.

I could respect this man if he showed remorse, accepted responsibility for his actions, and dedicated his life to showing society the consequences of the decision he made that took the lives of 5 people.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by valo403

Well you can classify whatever you want as murder, the need for intent is a common law thing (there are other ways to get to murder as well), and we're not bound to hold that definition forever. I think the better choice would be to raise the punishment rather than re-categorize the offense, but either one would work.

The easiest and I think appropriate thing to do is make driving with a BAC above 0.14 a felony. That way, severely impaired driving would result in a much harsher punishment, and killing someone while severely drunk would result in a murder charge for causing a death while in the commission of a felony.

[AMG_G]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Strongly disagree. Murder, either first or second, implies intent. You can't go changing definition based on emotional plea. It's what separates our legal system from a place like Afghanistan

Over the decades there have been huge awareness campaign strategies that try to educate people about the dangers of drinking and driving. It's not like "oh I didn't know getting sh*t faced would affect my driving..." If some azzhat still drives drunk than that is INTENT to me.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't really believe in Vigilant justice, its just not the right thing to do.

However you hope that his conscience haunts him for the rest of his life, However it just doesn't seem to feel like he's taken responsibility for essentially murdering 5 people and that's the tragedy.

I may have mentioned this earlier in the thread but my cousin is a guard at Bowden where he was staying and you're absolutely right. He was never contrite and often thought of himself as the victim and being unfairly persecuted. The threat of violence towards him from other inmates is the only reason he stopped making noise in the press about appeals and such.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

Strongly disagree. Murder, either first or second, implies intent. You can't go changing definition based on emotional plea. It's what separates our legal system from a place like Afghanistan

To me getting bombed out of your mind and walking out to your car or truck and getting in to drive is no different then picking up a gun and shooting it blindly down the street at a crowd of people.

The only difference is the weapon.

And I hate the use of the term accident when it comes to these kind of crimes. driving drunk is no accident and therefore driving drunk and plowing into a car is no accident.

[Burninator]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I believe that the justice system does a piss poor job of protecting the public.

No doubt in outlining cases like this our system disappoints. But piss poor? We live in one of the safest countries in the world and the stats will back that up.

[jar_e]

From 660 news...

National Parole Board unable to reach decision on full parole for Daniel Tschetter


A two member National Parole Board panel reached a split decision on whether Tschetter, who killed 5 people in a 2007 Calgary collision, should get full parole.

He will stay on day parole for now, but is due to be released from prison June 16th.

[CaptainCrunch]

The mf'er shouldn't even be getting day parole.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Burninator

No doubt in outlining cases like this our system disappoints. But piss poor? We live in one of the safest countries in the world and the stats will back that up.

I was reading somewhere that the re-offender rates range from 10 to 25%, that might have been old, there was also an issue with the stats tracking (ie a federal convict who re-offended and went into the provincial system wasn't counted as a re-offender statistically).

Part of me right now is about damning the statistics, maybe its the tired of the bs part of my soul, but I've read a ton of stories lately about people with lengthy records that keep getting let out.

I also look at the stats around the world for re-offenders and then think its great that we're the safest in the world but the bar I believe when you make that argument is set incredibly low.

[Minnie]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The mf'er shouldn't even be getting day parole.

Have you read anything lately, on the Greyhound beheader? Stupidity.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Minnie

Have you read anything lately, on the Greyhound beheader? Stupidity.

Yeah, but I hate to sound callous, but that one is a little different, the guy has/had real mental illness and it was one of the more severe cases out there. With him I can buy the not responsible for his actions.

At some point he does deserve a chance to rejoin society, depending on his continued use of the drugs prescribed to him and the treatment offered to him. I'm ok with him getting some day parole as long as he gets treatment and eventually being released to society under monitoring.

From what I understand he is genuinely remorseful for what he did to his victim.

The problem with the whole scenario is that its incredibly hurtful right now to the victims family and they haven't been treated well by the system so it feels like a slap in the face to them.

With DT he's never shown remorse for killing that family. He was drunk, not mentally ill and he showed no concern for the victims on that horrible night.

And he continued to show 0 remorse in jail from what I've read and heard.

In the Greyhound bus killing there were in my mind two victims, the poor kid who was murdered and a guy with really serious mental illnesses.

In the drunk driving one there were 5 victims and not one of them was the idiot who chose to drive drunk.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Burninator

No doubt in outlining cases like this our system disappoints. But piss poor? We live in one of the safest countries in the world and the stats will back that up.

Just because a country is one of the safest shouldn't be a reason to ignore things like this and let out people who commit real crimes that cause harm to others. 290 days for killing someone is a little more than a slap on the wrist for that crime. I've known people who spent more time in jail for attempted murder or possession of an illegal substance.

Cases like this are the exact reason why people will continue to drink and drive. There is very little risk for the worst possible outcome, which is sad and should be disturbing to all.

Especially with the way this guy has acted through the whole process should make it even more of a reason to make him an example.