Style police: Teach us!

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

To be clear, undershirts are not a “no go”. They’re underwear, so wear what you want. But they go “under” your clothes and should not be visible.

Isn’t that kind of common sense? Wear a nice dress shirt that you think looks nice. Why draw attention to the Hanes tshirt underneath?

Well it would be common sense if they were universally considered to be underwear. Just because they both share the prefix "under" doesn't mean my ginch and my crisp, nicely collared undershirt are equally inappropriate (to everyone; I get that you view it that way).

Undershirts are also practical depending on your vocation and/or how much you sweat. I mean, isn't that common sense, too? If you have very sweaty underarms, as an example, then not wearing an undershirt strikes me as more inappropriate than wearing one. Who wants to look at giant underarm sweat stains on the dance floor? And at my work, like I want sweat stains coming through to the front of my shirt when I go from the shop to my storefront to help a customer.

If you can see a sliver of my undershirt I'm not too concerned about affecting your sensibilities. I need them.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Sliver

The difference in my mind is I've always viewed primping and preening in front of a mirror and trying on outfits as vain. It's a bias I have that I'm trying to shake. I started thinking watches were dumb and ended up buying one I like after following the "watches you wear" thread for years. This thread is similar. I'm not disparaging your interest in fashion. If anything I'm thinking I should have clothes that fit a little better. I can't see myself spending lots of money on clothes, but endeavoring to at least get better-fitting clothes seems like a good starting point.

I look at maintaining a vehicle or keeping my property looking sharp as different from clothes because I like to maintain/build the value as much as possible in my material possessions. I tend to look at the things I own in terms of their value and in terms of the labour it took to acquire them. If I let a car go to #### or let my house fall apart, I feel like I'm just giving away my time and it eats at me.

For me, if I see a guy roll up in even a basic car like a Honda Accord, but he has clean wheels, clean glass, no garbage in it, tires shined, no wax residue on trim, no dust on dash, etc., I instantly respect him. Whether he hops out in fancy clothes or jeans and a T-shirt makes no difference to me. How he maintains his stuff is a bigger reflection on how he carries himself than whether or not he likes fashion. It's just how I view things.

You know your clothes are "your stuff."

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by peter12

You know your clothes are "your stuff."

But they're more or less valueless after you buy them. In my world, they don't bring in any additional value, either, but if I operated in the corporate world and I had a clotheshorse kind of boss then I could see the need to invest in clothes to impress. Where I am, though, there is no need and in fact it could be kind of alienating to my coworkers and customers since none of them are into fashion and all of them dress more or less like I do.

And...I do take care of my clothes. I only dry clean my button up shirts (even though they're cheap Quicksilver-type shirts) because I like them looking pressed and I don't want them looking ratty like if I washed them at home. My t-shirts look good, too, because I wear undershirts so they don't get bogarted with sweat.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Well it would be common sense if they were universally considered to be underwear. Just because they both share the prefix "under" doesn't mean my ginch and my crisp, nicely collared undershirt are equally inappropriate (to everyone; I get that you view it that way).

Undershirts are also practical depending on your vocation and/or how much you sweat. I mean, isn't that common sense, too? If you have very sweaty underarms, as an example, then not wearing an undershirt strikes me as more inappropriate than wearing one. Who wants to look at giant underarm sweat stains on the dance floor? And at my work, like I want sweat stains coming through to the front of my shirt when I go from the shop to my storefront to help a customer.

If you can see a sliver of my undershirt I'm not too concerned about affecting your sensibilities. I need them.

I consider seeing an undershirt through a dress shirt the equivalent of seeing someone's boxers 1-2 inches over the pant line. It's not seemingly as egregious if wearing jeans, but with chinos+ on (which exudes a minimum basic level of, "I'm trying to look well put together"), it looks hilariously stupid.

For the average person, who cares if you can see it. For others, it is an absolute faux pas if you are trying to achieve a certain minimum level of business appropriate and fashionable. This is what is being discussed here.

There's no specific set of rules, but overall per your car metaphor, there is seemingly a specific unwritten sensibility/rule in terms of seeing a well kept Accord, rusty/garbage filled Porche and a rusty/garbage filled Accord. Well kept > rusty any day, but the rusty/dirty Porche might be criticized more and viewed worse than the rusty/dirty Accord.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Sliver

But they're more or less valueless after you buy them.

I have actually made some decent money selling used clothes. On two separate occasions I've made a profit of over $500 on a single article of clothing. I could probably squeeze around 10 grand out of the stuff hanging in my 2nd bedroom closet if I could be bothered to spend a couple of weekends taking a bunch of photos and puting it all up on grailed.

It's not like cars though. If you play that market right you can legitimately never lose money on a car (not counting running costs and insurance, obviously). I've sold I think 5 cars and only one has been for less than I paid for it.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

I consider seeing an undershirt through a dress shirt the equivalent of seeing someone's boxers 1-2 inches over the pant line. It's not seemingly as egregious if wearing jeans, but with chinos+ on (which exudes a minimum basic level of, "I'm trying to look well put together"), it looks hilariously stupid.

For the average person, who cares if you can see it. For others, it is an absolute faux pas if you are trying to achieve a certain minimum level of business appropriate and fashionable. This is what is being discussed here.

There's no specific set of rules, but overall per your car metaphor, there is seemingly a specific unwritten sensibility/rule in terms of seeing a well kept Accord, rusty/garbage filled Porche and a rusty/garbage filled Accord. Well kept > rusty any day, but the rusty/dirty Porche might be criticized more and viewed worse than the rusty/dirty Accord.

Okay, I understand. Is it just the glimpse of the white undershirt underneath that's bothersome, or is it the outline, or is it both? Are there acceptable ways to wear an undershirt? Like maybe to colour match the undershirt to the dress shirt? Or how about like a v-neck undershirt so you can't see the undershirt, but you'd still see the outline of the sleeves under the dress shirt?

[_Q_]

Originally Posted by Sliver

The difference in my mind is I've always viewed primping and preening in front of a mirror and trying on outfits as vain. It's a bias I have that I'm trying to shake. I started thinking watches were dumb and ended up buying one I like after following the "watches you wear" thread for years. This thread is similar. I'm not disparaging your interest in fashion. If anything I'm thinking I should have clothes that fit a little better. I can't see myself spending lots of money on clothes, but endeavoring to at least get better-fitting clothes seems like a good starting point.

I look at maintaining a vehicle or keeping my property looking sharp as different from clothes because I like to maintain/build the value as much as possible in my material possessions. I tend to look at the things I own in terms of their value and in terms of the labour it took to acquire them. If I let a car go to #### or let my house fall apart, I feel like I'm just giving away my time and it eats at me.

For me, if I see a guy roll up in even a basic car like a Honda Accord, but he has clean wheels, clean glass, no garbage in it, tires shined, no wax residue on trim, no dust on dash, etc., I instantly respect him. Whether he hops out in fancy clothes or jeans and a T-shirt makes no difference to me. How he maintains his stuff is a bigger reflection on how he carries himself than whether or not he likes fashion. It's just how I view things.

This is a good discussion.

Here's the thing to the bold part. I think the common misconception is that you need to always wear "fancy clothes" to look good. As though wearing a suit with $1200 Oxford shoes is the only way to look good. You can by all means look good in a T shirt and jeans. In fact, I would say that wearing a t shirt and jeans is the most appropriate attire for a good portion of your week. But it's about wearing those items with a purpose of looking great, without looking uncomfortable. It's also not necessarily about buying a $200 t shirt and $400 jeans. If the stuff from the gap fits you best, then by all means go nuts on that stuff. It's just about being mindful about the materials you're wearing, which colors look good together, maybe thinking about wearing a pair of stan smiths or kill shots instead of your beaten up reboks, maybe buying a navy bomber jacket instead of the jacket with your company logo on it thats 1 size too large.

Again, being stylish isn't about fussing daily about fashion. Its about filling your closet with stuff that makes you look good fairly effortlessly.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Well it would be common sense if they were universally considered to be underwear. Just because they both share the prefix "under" doesn't mean my ginch and my crisp, nicely collared undershirt are equally inappropriate (to everyone; I get that you view it that way).

Undershirts are also practical depending on your vocation and/or how much you sweat. I mean, isn't that common sense, too? If you have very sweaty underarms, as an example, then not wearing an undershirt strikes me as more inappropriate than wearing one. Who wants to look at giant underarm sweat stains on the dance floor? And at my work, like I want sweat stains coming through to the front of my shirt when I go from the shop to my storefront to help a customer.

If you can see a sliver of my undershirt I'm not too concerned about affecting your sensibilities. I need them.

You’re not affecting my sensibilities. You can look however you want. Wear your underwear over top of your clothes if you think that’s a good look. But the reasons you’ve described for wearing an undershirt are just underscoring what it is. An undergarment worn for comfort or protection, not for looks.

As for sweating, invest in good deodorant. That crisp, nicely collared undershirt is sounding kind of gross.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Okay, I understand. Is it just the glimpse of the white undershirt underneath that's bothersome, or is it the outline, or is it both? Are there acceptable ways to wear an undershirt? Like maybe to colour match the undershirt to the dress shirt? Or how about like a v-neck undershirt so you can't see the undershirt, but you'd still see the outline of the sleeves under the dress shirt?

IMO, seeing both color and shape is worse than just shape or color. IMO seeing color is more distracting than seeing a faint outline of an undershirt. I think to me, it is no different seeing a deep shape and outline of underwear through tight pants. It's just weird IMO.

I think it was Pepsi who said earlier in the thread to consider light grey and try to match the undershirt color tones to your body color vs matching the shirt color.

The absolute worst look IMO is a white short sleeved dress shirt with a full on thick white cotton undershirt visible underneath, then dress pants. It reminds me of the basic attire of many servers in Asia and with their humidity, you basically see right through everything. For this reason, I absolutely do not like the white dress shirt look on dress pants without a vest or blazer. Any other color or pattern is fine. Not everyone would agree with me, but that look IMO just screams server to me which if I'm trying to look business appropriate and well kept, just doesn't feel right to me.

[PepsiFree]

I think something most people who "don't get" fashion don't understand is that it's not about dressing up for any occasion, it's about looking good whatever the situation is and whatever your budget.

I know what to wear to look good when something calls for formal, business, business casual, or just casual. I know what looks good in the winter, in a summer at the lake, when you're walking around town, etc. And mostly I just like helping when people ask for recommendations because it's genuinely fun to me helping guys look good.

90% of the time I'm dressed in jeans, a t-shirt, and sneakers (sometimes a jacket, hat, or sunglasses). And I'm not wearing anything expensive most of the time, either. But I know how to choose these items to make them look good regardless of the price.

That's what it's about. Caring about style isn't about spending a bunch of money or dressing up, it's about knowing how to look great regardless of your budget and in whatever situation you want to look great in. It's not about dressing above your peers at work, it's about knowing how you can wear the same types of things you're wearing right now and look better in them.

Like, taking it back to the shorts conversation. You can buy affordable, comfortable shorts that make you look sloppy, or you can buy affordable, comfortable shorts that look great on you. You choose the former because you don't know or don't care, which is fine, but the latter is always accessible to you.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

You’re not affecting my sensibilities. You can look however you want. Wear your underwear over top of your clothes if you think that’s a good look. But the reasons you’ve described for wearing an undershirt are just underscoring what it is. An undergarment worn for comfort or protection, not for looks.

As for sweating, invest in good deodorant. That crisp, nicely collared undershirt is sounding kind of gross.

Nobody is wearing underwear over top of clothes and nobody is wearing an undershirt because they think the undershirt looks good; they're wearing an undershirt as a practical article of clothing to protect more valuable clothes and to prevent visible sweat marks on outer clothes. Is it possible you just don't quite understand why somebody would wear one just because you don't need one?

I buy new undershirts every year. Buy 'em 10 at a time and they become garage rags after a year. They're hardly gross.

Strange Brew, maybe be thankful you perspire and don't sweat. I have good deodorant. I don't think you're appreciating that some people have bodies and/or jobs where they sweat. Also, when I'm at work in the shop it's not just my underarms sweating and I'm not about to bath my entire body in deodorant.

Do you work out? Do you sweat when you work out? Some jobs are as physically demanding as a workout. If somebody was sweating during their workout would you tell them to just buy better deodorant so they wouldn't sweat? It would be super ridiculous, wouldn't it?

Originally Posted by DoubleF

IMO, seeing both color and shape is worse than just shape or color. IMO seeing color is more distracting than seeing a faint outline of an undershirt. I think to me, it is no different seeing a deep shape and outline of underwear through tight pants. It's just weird IMO.

I think it was Pepsi who said earlier in the thread to consider light grey and try to match the undershirt color tones to your body color vs matching the shirt color.

The absolute worst look IMO is a white short sleeved dress shirt with a full on thick white cotton undershirt visible underneath, then dress pants. It reminds me of the basic attire of many servers in Asia and with their humidity, you basically see right through everything. For this reason, I absolutely do not like the white dress shirt look on dress pants without a vest or blazer. Any other color or pattern is fine. Not everyone would agree with me, but that look IMO just screams server to me which if I'm trying to look business appropriate and well kept, just doesn't feel right to me.

I don't own a white dress shirt and doubt I'll buy one. My dress shirt is light blue. Maybe I'll pick up a v-neck undershirt to eliminate one faux pas next time I have to dress up.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Nobody is wearing underwear over top of clothes and nobody is wearing an undershirt because they think the undershirt looks good; they're wearing an undershirt as a practical article of clothing to protect more valuable clothes and to prevent visible sweat marks on outer clothes. Is it possible you just don't quite understand why somebody would wear one just because you don't need one?

I buy new undershirts every year. Buy 'em 10 at a time and they become garage rags after a year. They're hardly gross.

Strange Brew, maybe be thankful you perspire and don't sweat. I have good deodorant. I don't think you're appreciating that some people have bodies and/or jobs where they sweat. Also, when I'm at work in the shop it's not just my underarms sweating and I'm not about to bath my entire body in deodorant.

Do you work out? Do you sweat when you work out? Some jobs are as physically demanding as a workout. If somebody was sweating during their workout would you tell them to just buy better deodorant so they wouldn't sweat? It would be super ridiculous, wouldn't it?



I don't own a white dress shirt and doubt I'll buy one. My dress shirt is light blue. Maybe I'll pick up a v-neck undershirt to eliminate one faux pas next time I have to dress up.

Maybe read what I have posted again. Knock yourself out with undershirts. They shouldn’t be visible.

If my job required me to wear nice dress shirts while also sweating profusely, yeah I’d be investing in a ton of antiperspirant/deodorant.

[_Q_]

If you're wearing an undershirt because you're pudgy and don't want the world to see your rolls or man boobs, just wear a heavier material shirt like an Oxford shirt. If you're wearing an undershirt because you sweat like crazy, then get some better deodorant and wear an Oxford shirt over top of your undershirt. The material is heavy enough that nobody will see the undershirt. In either of those cases, only wear a traditional dress shirt when you have a jacket or cardigan on.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Maybe read what I have posted again. Knock yourself out with undershirts. They shouldn’t be visible.

If my job required me to wear nice dress shirts while also sweating profusely, yeah I’d be investing in a ton of antiperspirant/deodorant.

Cool, well I guess nobody is stopping your from smearing antiperspirant all over your chest so we each have our approach.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I don't own a white dress shirt and doubt I'll buy one. My dress shirt is light blue. Maybe I'll pick up a v-neck undershirt to eliminate one faux pas next time I have to dress up.

Semantics, but I think faux pas is a bit heavy handed wording for your scenario. Your situation (and frame) doesn't seem to demand the same level of accuracy as the rest of us seemingly require. Decently well fitted and appropriate color combos is all you seemingly need to adhere to.

It's not necessary, but getting a nice fitted undershirt that is less visible would probably make you look more dapper/blend in with everyone. But when it comes to blending in, you're a self described giant with size 15 Doc Martens who likes to have a good time. If I ever saw you at a formal event, I think I wouldn't be able to stop staring at size 15 Doc Martens more than a few undershirt lines. You ain't blending in very well no matter what you do. What the hell cares what other people think at that point.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by DoubleF

Semantics, but I think faux pas is a bit heavy handed wording for your scenario. Your situation (and frame) doesn't seem to demand the same level of accuracy as the rest of us seemingly require. Decently well fitted and appropriate color combos is all you seemingly need to adhere to.

It's not necessary, but getting a nice fitted undershirt that is less visible would probably make you look more dapper/blend in with everyone. But when it comes to blending in, you're a self described giant with size 15 Doc Martens who likes to have a good time. If I ever saw you at a formal event, I think I wouldn't be able to stop staring at size 15 Doc Martens more than a few undershirt lines. You ain't blending in very well no matter what you do. What the hell cares what other people think at that point.

LOL
You are a mutant, and to far gone for help. You do you.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

LOL
You are a mutant, and to far gone for help. You do you.

I liked DoubleF's diplomatic wording better.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I liked DoubleF's diplomatic wording better.

I thought you were the straight talk guy!

[Slava]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I have actually made some decent money selling used clothes. On two separate occasions I've made a profit of over $500 on a single article of clothing. I could probably squeeze around 10 grand out of the stuff hanging in my 2nd bedroom closet if I could be bothered to spend a couple of weekends taking a bunch of photos and puting it all up on grailed.

It's not like cars though. If you play that market right you can legitimately never lose money on a car (not counting running costs and insurance, obviously). I've sold I think 5 cars and only one has been for less than I paid for it.

I didn't know what grailed was, so I took a look. Wow. I had no idea how out of touch I am...but I guess to each their own.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

As for sweating, invest in good deodorant. That crisp, nicely collared undershirt is sounding kind of gross.

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

If my job required me to wear nice dress shirts while also sweating profusely, yeah I’d be investing in a ton of antiperspirant/deodorant.

1. Trick is to put your antiperspirant on before bed, reduces sweating and stops the antiperspirant from ruining your shirts.
2. Get one of these: https://dermadry.com/ I don't have hyperhidrosis but I usually run pretty warm and even a little underarm sweat on my shirt is annoying to me. After the first two weeks, not a drop of sweat. Maintenance is once every week for about 15 minutes.

As for Grailed.com, god damn it, why do I have to know that exists now? *gets out wallet*