Toronto Blue Jays - Offseason Thread

[JTech780]

Originally Posted by Parallex

No kiddin', that there be crazy talk. I mean I could see Upton over Bautista as the smaller side of a platoon... but as an everyday player Bautista is significantly better. I could see a two year deal happening, Bautista in principally in leftfield with some DH/1B duty as it allows and a platoon of Upton and some lefty in RF (possibly a trade for Jarrod Dyson or maybe Brandon Moss in free agency).

I would be fine with Dyson, but Moss' OBP has been steadily declining for years, I would pass on him.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by JTech780

I would be fine with Dyson, but Moss' OBP has been steadily declining for years, I would pass on him.

Dyson would be my preference as well (depending on what it would take to acquire him from the royals). Yeah Moss's OBP is pretty medicore but his OPS against RHP is really good (and would only get better moving from Busch to Rogers). He's basically Plan C (or Plan D depending on how you look at it).

[Cappy]

Dyson is a below average hitter, that you could platoon with Upton and maybe bat in the one hole (although more likely 9, given his career numbers).

He is not an upgrade to JB.

[JTech780]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Dyson is a below average hitter, that you could platoon with Upton and maybe bat in the one hole (although more likely 9, given his career numbers).

He is not an upgrade to JB.

Offensively Dyson won't give you the power and OBP that you would get with Bautista. Dyson was able to get on base at a .340 last year, which is solid and he gives you another gold glove caliber defender in the outfield. Not to mention that he gives some much needed speed on the base paths.

This team has to learn how to grind out runs and not rely so much on the long ball. Having speed in the lineup will help.

I do wonder if JD will be able to put up MVP numbers without Bautista and EE hitting behind him. It would be nice to be able to add another power bat.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by JTech780

Offensively Dyson won't give you the power and OBP that you would get with Bautista. Dyson was able to get on base at a .340 last year, which is solid and he gives you another gold glove caliber defender in the outfield. Not to mention that he gives some much needed speed on the base paths.

This team has to learn how to grind out runs and not rely so much on the long ball. Having speed in the lineup will help.

I do wonder if JD will be able to put up MVP numbers without Bautista and EE hitting behind him. It would be nice to be able to add another power bat.

It's tough to say whether his .340 is an outlier. He is 31 and hasn't hit above a 328 OBP until last year.

He is Ben Revere - who could be had for less.

I don't agree that we need to "grind out" runs in the sense that we put a spray hitting speedster in a power position over and above a guy capable of hitting 30+ HRs, 400 OBP and a 130 OPS+

You may want a guy like that in the POs, but you have to get there first; and the last few years have shown that slugging is far more important than speed and small ball.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Dyson is a below average hitter, that you could platoon with Upton and maybe bat in the one hole (although more likely 9, given his career numbers).

He is not an upgrade to JB.

Oh no, he isn't at all. I'd want him in addition to *not instead of. I was more thinking you sign Bautista then acquire Dyson. Platooned with Upton that makes an average bat with surplus value coming from D and baserunning.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Oh no, he isn't at all. I'd want him in addition to *not instead of. I was more thinking you sign Bautista then acquire Dyson. Platooned with Upton that makes an average bat with surplus value coming from D and baserunning.

Ah, makes sense. I wonder what he would cost.

Revere obviously has a better track record, is 3 years younger. Not as good defensively (mostly his arm, i think).

I'm personally not a huge fan of hollow averages though. Guys that can hit 300 but slug less than 400 seem too fickle to trust everyday.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by Cappy

Ah, makes sense. I wonder what he would cost.

Revere obviously has a better track record, is 3 years younger. Not as good defensively (mostly his arm, i think).

I'm personally not a huge fan of hollow averages though. Guys that can hit 300 but slug less than 400 seem to fickle to trust everyday.

Revere/Dyson are interesting. I actually think plus speed plays well at the RC, with the turf playing so slow it opens up the opportunity for infield singles more prominently than other parks.

Won't be a sexy addition, but I do think some value could be had in either of these guys to serve as a platoon of some sort.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Revere/Dyson are interesting.

Honestly, I would only want Dyson. Revere was awful last year, they are a pretty similar profile bats and baserunning wise but Dyson is a much better defender.

[ClubFlames]

http://www.thescore.com/mlb/news/118...ulti-year-deal

The Blue Jays reportedly remain unwilling to offer the free-agent slugger more than the one-year, $17.2-million qualifying offer that he declined from the club in November, industry sources told Gregor Chisholm of MLB.com.

Good for the Jays for sticking to their guns especially after JB gave that number to them before the season started and said he wouldn't budge.

[Parallex]

They should offer him a two year deal.

Offering a 1 year deal is less then optimal since they can't qualify him again next offseason. Maybe 15 x 2... that would sync up nicely with Donaldson, Happ, Pearce, Smoak (Blah), and Loup in terms of freed up payroll.

Gives him the chance to build up some trade value if they decide to rebuild after this year and the monetary commitment wouldn't be onerous.

[JTech780]

What does it cost to go after Ryan Braun? He used to be on the market, I am not sure if he still is or if the price was too high. He is under contract till 2020 with a team option for 2021. He gets on base, has some power and can steal some bases. He is an adequate defender.

I feel like he is more of an impact player than anyone that is a free agent with the exception of EE and Bautista.

Just trying to think of other options.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by JTech780

What does it cost to go after Ryan Braun? He used to be on the market, I am not sure if he still is or if the price was too high. He is under contract till 2020 with a team option for 2021. He gets on base, has some power and can steal some bases. He is an adequate defender.

I feel like he is more of an impact player than anyone that is a free agent with the exception of EE and Bautista.

Just trying to think of other options.

There was talk in September about a potential Puig for Braun swap of some sort.

I'm assuming the asking price is still somewhat higher than the jays are prepared to offer / have the pieces to offer.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Honestly, I would only want Dyson. Revere was awful last year, they are a pretty similar profile bats and baserunning wise but Dyson is a much better defender.

Revere has really only had 1 poor year in his career and from the articles I can find he got into bad habits at the plate because he was compensating for his opening day injury.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Revere has really only had 1 poor year in his career and from the articles I can find he got into bad habits at the plate because he was compensating for his opening day injury.

Yeah... but it was last year. All those things could be true it could also be the baloney that folk always say after the first bad year of many. He's also not a great defender. A not great defender with zero power coming off the worst year of his career... that's Plan H territory.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Yeah... but it was last year. All those things could be true it could also be the baloney that folk always say after the first bad year of many. He's also not a great defender. A not great defender with zero power coming off the worst year of his career... that's Plan H territory.

The article I found were from July when he was talking about losing his starting spot, not after the season. Also the whole "not a great defender" thing, is blown out of proportion. His arm is weak, that's about it, his glove is fine and his range is good.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

His arm is weak, that's about it, his glove is fine and his range is good.

Sure but he doesn't take particularily good routes to the ball. In terms of blue jay outfielders more Rajai Davis then Devon White.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Sure but he doesn't take particularily good routes to the ball. In terms of blue jay outfielders more Rajai Davis then Devon White.

I had no issues with his defensive play when he was in Toronto before, I have little doubt he will bounce back.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

I had no issues with his defensive play when he was in Toronto before, I have little doubt he will bounce back.

I didn't have an issue with defense either... it was fine (but not plus). But that's the thing, it was just fine, with Revere You don't get surplus value with the bat (it's all empty average with no power and few walks) and you don't get surplus value with the D. I want someone who offers at least one of those from the left side (For the purposes of a platoon with Upton).

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Parallex

I didn't have an issue with defense either... it was fine (but not plus). But that's the thing, it was just fine, with Revere You don't get surplus value with the bat (it's all empty average with no power and few walks) and you don't get surplus value with the D. I want someone who offers at least one of those from the left side (For the purposes of a platoon with Upton).

He might not walk alot, but he is a contact hitter and he rarely swings and misses. A player that hits around .300, always puts the ball in play and is a constant threat on the basepaths is definitely an asset. Probably more valuable to this team than another .240 hitter that either strikes out or hits a solo shot