[Trade] Markus Granlund to Van for Shinkaruk

[gunnner]

My least favorite BT move so far. I think we regret this one down the road. Funny thing is all my Canuck friends think they got fleeced.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Granlund had a good game. 12:40 ice time with an assist and a +3. I like seeing old Flames do well, it's just kind of unsettling when it's with a rival.

You'll be happy to know Rene Bourque got a goal last night.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Granlund had a good game. 12:40 ice time with an assist and a +3. I like seeing old Flames do well, it's just kind of unsettling when it's with a rival.

Brandon Bollig would have a good game if he was matched up against Mr. -4 Erik Karlsson.

[Strange Brew]

People forget how great Granlund looked for while he was in the AHL. As god as any of our prospects have. Of course that doesn't always translate but sometimes you have to be patient at the NHL level too.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

People forget how great Granlund looked for while he was in the AHL. As god as any of our prospects have. Of course that doesn't always translate but sometimes you have to be patient at the NHL level too.

I think Granlund can be a regular player in the NHL but in a 3rd line role. That wasn't going to work for the Flames because they have an abundance of bottom 6 talent on the roster and in the AHL. I have no issue with them trading him for a guy that has better top 6 potential even if he has a higher bust factor.

[Flames_F.T.W]

I saw/read it somewhere here, but the best way to summarize this deal is that Granlund has the higher floor but Shinkaruk has the higher ceiling.

I'm alright with trades like this as Granlund was a depth player for us who had little chance of becoming an impact player in our organization. Shinkaruk is a skilled scorer who may have more of a chance of being a bust, but also has more of a chance of being an impact player for this team.

[bubbsy]

so... Shinkaruk ranked as our 2nd best prospect after Bennet according to this HF article:

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...ine-talents/2/

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I think Granlund can be a regular player in the NHL but in a 3rd line role. That wasn't going to work for the Flames because they have an abundance of bottom 6 talent on the roster and in the AHL. I have no issue with them trading him for a guy that has better top 6 potential even if he has a higher bust factor.

I hear you and you may well end up being right. But two things to consider:

If Granlund tops out as a bottom 6 player, that is not all bad. The Flames have many of those, but what they need are bottom 6 players on reasonable contracts. They don't have enough of those.

Does Shinkaruk really have a higher ceiling? He might be more unknown, but Granlund's AHL performance was every bit as good as his. We might be equating Shinkaruk's unknown to a higher ceiling. I guess it's like trading a layer for a draft pick. Any draft pick can have a higher ceiling than a veteran player but at some point, the probability of achieving that ceiling is not high enough to warrant making the move.

I think its a strange trade for both teams.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Flames_F.T.W

I saw/read it somewhere here, but the best way to summarize this deal is that Granlund has the higher floor but Shinkaruk has the higher ceiling.

I'm alright with trades like this as Granlund was a depth player for us who had little chance of becoming an impact player in our organization. Shinkaruk is a skilled scorer who may have more of a chance of being a bust, but also has more of a chance of being an impact player for this team.

Yeah. I feel if Granlund was good at faceoffs they would have held on to him but the fact he was poor at faceoffs and wasn't great as a winger made him a bad fit for the roster.

[devo22]

Saw this yesterday and had to laugh. Poor Markus.

Thomas Drance @ThomasDrance
Markus Granlund, career 40% faceoff man, falls down on his first draw as a Vancouver Canuck.

Still had a good debut it seems, good for him!

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

so... Shinkaruk ranked as our 2nd best prospect after Bennet according to this HF article:

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/article...ine-talents/2/

Yeah that top 20 was so bad I didn't bother posting it here. So many issues with that list, CP makes a much better one every summer. HF often fails on their lists.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Yeah that top 20 was so bad I didn't bother posting it here. So many issues with that list, CP makes a much better one every summer. HF often fails on their lists.

agreed. just found it interesting the guy makes it to the top of the list (assuming bennet isn't deemed a 'prospect' anymore).

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

agreed. just found it interesting the guy makes it to the top of the list (assuming bennet isn't deemed a 'prospect' anymore).

Reeks of the guy doing the list being a Canuck fan or something. Shinkaruk is certainly not our best prospect, wouldn't make my top 5 I don't think.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

agreed. just found it interesting the guy makes it to the top of the list (assuming bennet isn't deemed a 'prospect' anymore).

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Reeks of the guy doing the list being a Canuck fan or something. Shinkaruk is certainly not our best prospect, wouldn't make my top 5 I don't think.

Well, he suddenly because the highest scorer in Stockton. He is also the highest draft pick not already playing for the Flames I think.

Who are better ones? Kylington maybe. Andersson? Gillies? Not Poirier for me. I know Jankowski is for some people - he's just too much of a wild card for me to assess. Wotherspoon took huge steps in my opinion of him over the last two games.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, he suddenly because the highest scorer in Stockton. He is also the highest draft pick not already playing for the Flames I think.

Who are better ones? Kylington maybe. Andersson? Gillies? Not Poirier for me. I know Jankowski is for some people - he's just too much of a wild card for me to assess. Wotherspoon took huge steps in my opinion of him over the last two games.

Jankowski for sure. Giiles for sure. I still like Poirier ahead of Shinkaruk, his game is less one-dimensional. Then there's good arguments for having Andersson, Hickey, Kylington, Wotherspoon and McDonald all ahead of him or around there too.

Based on the fact that Benning shopped this guy for what, almost a year and couldn't get a defensemen back that he wanted I don't think Shinkaruk's value league wide is as our best prospect. Both Treliving and Benning still question if his goal scoring will translate to the NHL and it sounds like he still needs to round out his game. Undersized sniper. He's got potential but I view him as more of a boom/bust guy.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Well, he suddenly because the highest scorer in Stockton. He is also the highest draft pick not already playing for the Flames I think.

Who are better ones? Kylington maybe. Andersson? Gillies? Not Poirier for me. I know Jankowski is for some people - he's just too much of a wild card for me to assess. Wotherspoon took huge steps in my opinion of him over the last two games.

It really depends on what you consider important for ranking a prospect. Draft pedigree? Stats?

I think without a doubt, most will have Shinkaruk in the top 10. I don't have him in my top 5.

Gillies, Jankowski, Poirier, Kylington, Andersson and Hickey (in no particular order) are all higher. I think their games translate better.

I think there is definitely room for Shinkaruk to work up the list, but at the moment I still think that at least the above mentioned prospects are higher, and perhaps an argument can be made for a few others as well. Let's see how he directly compares to the prospects on the Heat - scoring from one team to another isn't always the best way to figure it out, especially now with Stockton playing out west and not having an even distribution of games in the AHL like Utica did.

People rank prospects differently. Some go for straight-up skill, regardless of how easily it may or may not translate. Some just rank based purely on ceiling, not floor. Some purely on floor, not ceiling. Some still rank by how close this player is to the NHL. I also like lists that explain the methodology and criteria behind them. The one on HF I can't figure out - I also dislike it quite a bit because there doesn't seem to be any sort of rationale.

Some of it is pure upside, some of it is just how close a prospect has come to the NHL, etc. Wotherspoon (which we can attest is trending up to being a fine prospect - but probably not someone who is a gamebreaker or a catalyst on the ice) is ranked ahead what many consider the best 3 defencemen in the pipeline. Why not Kulak then, who has also played in the NHL this season, and at least started off well in his time in the NHL, and has more goals and assists than Wotherspoon. Or Kylington who was playing on the top pairing, and leads all defencemen in goals scored as an 18 year old?

Lists like this just don't do it for me.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Reeks of the guy doing the list being a Canuck fan or something. Shinkaruk is certainly not our best prospect, wouldn't make my top 5 I don't think.

He writes mostly about the Ducks and the Kings. I would say his rankings are based on woeful ignorance more than anything. Mind you, much of our own fanbase follows the same methodology; look at draft position, stats, and then make a call. Unless you really follow these guys it is hard to understand the challenges each player is facing and how they are addressing the holes in their games. The best examples of this are Jankowski and Poirier.

Jankowski was brutalized by the navel gazers because he wasn't scoring enough. The stats just didn't support what they thought was a developing player. Those that actually watched him were telling these people to chill because of the roll Jankowski was cast in and the style the team played. They were confident that when the player became a senior, and was cast in the scoring role, the numbers would come, which they did. Jankowski has been a great prospect because he has continued to work n his game and refine his tools. He should be a good one going forward.

Poirier is getting discounted because his numbers aren't there. He posted great offensive numbers last season but was weak defensively. This year he's working on that 200' game and his numbers have naturally tailed off. But he is progressing because is two way game is improving. He now shows he has some idea of what to do away from the puck. He is showing growth and coachability. This is another good year of development for the player even if his numbers are down. He's still on track and will get there as he finds consistency in this aspect of his game.

Guys that don't follow our team and prospects closely are not going to know this or acknowledge it. They are going to fall into the "what have you done for me lately" camp and go with what they see in the hockeydb, and think that variance in points is indicative of growth. It would be nice to have a Flames writer to provide this content on hockey's future but I don't think there are many informed Flames fans that frequent that site. At least none capable of writing a concise review of our prospects and their overall development.

[Bingo]

^
I'll be curious to see where people put little EatBread this summer with his scoring exploits in the OHL

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Bingo

^
I'll be curious to see where people put little EatBread this summer with his scoring exploits in the OHL

Craig Button has him as the 4th best prospect in our system! And he's seen him play. I found that quite interesting.

[Caged Great]

Janko - Gillies - Kylington - Andersson are the ones I'd have above Shinkaruk. Poirier, Shin, Hickey, McDonald, Klimchuk in the next tier and a whole host of guys that could be 3rd/4th liners 5/6 D like Kulak Agostino Gilmour etc comprise the next group with filler guys like Deblouw and Bruce being at the bottom.