[News] Bennett Out 4-6 Months with Shoulder Surgery *UPDATE* Back Skating

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

How many of those guys were:

A) 18
B) Coming off a long-term injury
C) Hadn't played a meaningful game in over 9 months
D) Playing their first NHL game mid-season

A) some were 18 and some were 19 - so, by your comment, you agree that, for an 18 year old, 4 to 6 months is a long time and he has probably matured, and grown/strengthened quite a bit.

B) Bennett is not the first guy ever to have an injury - some of you make it sound like they put him back together with papier mache and stepping out on the ice might tear him in 2. If he isn't ready, he shouldn't play ANYWHERE.

C) easily fixed with a conditioning stint in Adi. Also, the Flames have shown to be excellent at sheltering players and easing them into tougher roles. The real comparison with RNH, IMO, is that they didn't shelter and protect him, they threw him to the wolves.

D) again, progression... Practice, bag-skating, stint in Adi, sheltered minutes, more minutes, etc.

The closed-mindedness of some people is amazing. Bennett's play in practice will dictate how this moves forward. It may well be the case that the correct decision is to send him down. But thinking the discussion is unwarranted to even have is folly.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

...The closed-mindedness of some people is amazing. Bennett's play in practice will dictate how this moves forward. It may well be the case that the correct decision is to send him down. But thinking the discussion is unwarranted to even have is folly.

To assume that this will be an easy decision for the Flames is folly. I expect that this will be one that they will grapple with for a time.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by handgroen

I honestly had no idea that there were people critical of duhatscheck out there at all.
always enjoyed him, always thought everybody did.

a smart guy in hockey journalism?

I forgot the green text. Duhatschek is clearly not an idiot. And he doesn't think there's any point in keeping Bennet up.

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I guess this argument is good for business, but it really kills me how polar people tend to be.

I'm on the back to junior side as what I think will happen, but I sure hope to hell the Flames management isn't as close minded as some people in this narrative about player decisions. You can't have a rule, each player is different and a decision should be made based on each and every case.

The Flames have never drafted a guy higher. He was looking good enough to get the 9 game trial in September when he went down. He's now back and repaired. All that says take a look at him which I'm is exactly what they're doing now.

I don't blame Flame fans for wanting to see the shiny new toy, that's what being a fan is all about.

But the Flames are equally stupid to have their minds made up that he's staying or he's going. You can't just have a blanket rule based on his age, or the surgery. He was sent to the NHL shoulder guy, so you have to assume he's good to go. Strength tests would back that up.

Watch him in practice. Take it to contact drills. If he still looks good then send him to the AHL on the conditioning stint. If he still looks good bring him up and play him in one NHL game. If he still looks good tick him towards the 9 and then make a call.

That's a lot of road to pass without a bump so I think he goes back to the OHL, but I'm guessing they haven't already made the call on sending him down like many of you have.

Its a business. If it doesn't hurt his development and he's better than other options now you keep him.

How dare you be reasonable? I'm sure the site owner only created this place so people can argue extreme cases...

I too agree that Bennett's development is not going to suffer if he goes back to the OHL to start and finish up his season. However, as you mentioned it shouldn't be an open and shut case. If he is ready for the NHL, and he is going to contribute to helping the team's playoff push then why not let him stay up? They way they have handled a lot of their youth recently give me confidence that they'll make the correct decision for Bennett.

If he sticks in the NHL he isn't going to jump right into 1st line center roll. He is going to earn it. How will he earn it? By playing well in sheltered roles and forcing Hartley to give him more responsibility.

People need to ensure that they're not impatient to see what he can do at the NHL level. If it happens it happens. If he goes down to junior, then that' is where he needs to be. The Flames played it cautiously with Monahan and I don't think they'll be any different with Bennett.

[Azure]

Because of the style of game he plays it is a concern if he is physically strong/big enough to play in the NHL.

Not sure if anyone has seen some pictures of Moneyhands lately in street clothes, but he is a big guy. That is why he is doing just fine playing in the NHL at 20 years of age.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Azure

Because of the style of game he plays it is a concern if he is physically strong/big enough to play in the NHL.

Not sure if anyone has seen some pictures of Moneyhands lately in street clothes, but he is a big guy. That is why he is doing just fine playing in the NHL at 20 years of age.

The physical maturity is the measrue in my mind. I would rather he spend time in the OHL, play, and train over the summer.

He will be older, and a lot can change physically in that time.

The last thing I want to see is for him to get RNH'd.

I believe he will play in the league, I believe he will be good, I just don't think he needs to be put in this season.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Azure

Because of the style of game he plays it is a concern if he is physically strong/big enough to play in the NHL.

Not sure if anyone has seen some pictures of Moneyhands lately in street clothes, but he is a big guy. That is why he is doing just fine playing in the NHL at 20 years of age.

It is not an insurmountable concern that necessitates Bennett's immediate dispatch back to juniour. As mentioned in this discussion on several occasions to this point, very young, undersized and physically immature players can and DO find success in this league. David Pastrnak is one.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

...I believe he will play in the league, I believe he will be good, I just don't think he needs to be put in this season.

I also believe all of these things, but am prepared to accept that Sam Bennett might just be good enough to overcome the odds now. This is not a question of need, it is a question of merit and progression. If Bennett is good enough to play, and shows that he belongs in the NHL, then he should be playing in the NHL. It is just that simple.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I also believe all of these things, but am prepared to accept that Sam Bennett might just be good enough to overcome the odds now. This is not a question of need, it is a question of merit and progression. If Bennett is good enough to play, and shows that he belongs in the NHL, then he should be playing in the NHL. It is just that simple.

You have to consider what is best for his development overall. Just because a player can play in the NHL doesn't mean they should play at that moment.

Sometimes if you are trying to develop a 1st line player, it is better to let them play on the top line in a lower league than to bring them in on a bottom line in the NHL even if they technically could play there. If Bennett can play, but they still feel he needs sheltering, then the OHL should be the route they give him.

Obviously only management and coaches have the inside scoop here, but I do not believe it is a simple case.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It is not an insurmountable concern that necessitates Bennett's immediate dispatch back to juniour. As mentioned in this discussion on several occasions to this point, very young, undersized and physically immature players can and DO find success in this league. David Pastrnak is one.

I'm not saying he is. For all I know he put on some muscle the last 4-5 months.

All I'm saying is that he plays a more in your face type of game than Monahan does, and because of that he needs to be able to physically handle that. The skill and talent is there. No doubt. If he's ready physically, I say keep him here.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I also believe all of these things, but am prepared to accept that Sam Bennett might just be good enough to overcome the odds now. This is not a question of need, it is a question of merit and progression. If Bennett is good enough to play, and shows that he belongs in the NHL, then he should be playing in the NHL. It is just that simple.

I agree with your post, but it also might be that he plays and aggravates his shoulder (shoulders are a pain in the a$$). His play is physical and agressive.

I would love to see him come into the league and dominate, but I am willing to wait till next season for the to happen. I will be honest, I can't recall what the position of the team was prior to his injury coming to light. Had he won a sport? I don't know. I will say that I agree that "you can't lose your sport due to injury".

I think you are bang on that this "is not a question of need", but in a way it is a question of need. The Flames need him to be the stud we all believe he can be. Are Bennett and The Flames willing to take that short term pain to ensure long term gain?

The flip side is what damage would be done to him mentally and physically if he comes up and plays but flounders.....

Luckly there are hockey minds greater than mine making this decision.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

...I think you are bang on that this "is not a question of need", but in a way it is a question of need. The Flames need him to be the stud we all believe he can be. Are Bennett and The Flames willing to take that short term pain to ensure long term gain?

The flip side is what damage would be done to him mentally and physically if he comes up and plays but flounders.....

Luckly there are hockey minds greater than mine making this decision.

Great post, thanks. I agree with your first paragraph quoted here, but I don't really buy into the precariousness of player development more generally. That is not to say that players can't be ruined or damage—one only needs to look North to see that this is a very real problem. However, it is only a problem for a select few organisations that clearly have no idea what they are doing, and I would not count the Flames among them. Having said that, within a culture of great development, I think too much is made about the relationship between player success and where they play their early years. In other words, Bennett is going to be just as good a player regardless of where he plays this season.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Great post, thanks. I agree with your first paragraph quoted here, but I don't really buy into the precariousness of player development more generally. That is not to say that players can't be ruined or damage—one only needs to look North to see that this is a very real problem. However, it is only a problem for a select few organisations that clearly have no idea what they are doing, and I would not count the Flames among them. Having said that, within a culture of great development, I think too much is made about the relationship between player success and where they play their early years. In other words, Bennett is going to be just as good a player regardless of where he plays this season.

I guess we agree to disagree. I think there is a relationship between success and development. I think an organization needs to ensure it sets the player up for success long term. If he was a bit older, I would suggest that the A would be the place to start him. After living through the Young Guns era (I know you know the Flames weren't always good at player development), I am willing to allow the player to play in the environment to make him a long term success.

Is that the OHL this year....I think it is. Then the Flames can work closely with him during the off season to ensure he is a physical beast come next year training camp.

[Bingo]

The other issue too is the dressing room.

This is a tight group, and while Bennett has been around the team all winter he hasn't been part of the group that has gotten them here.

If I was Treliving I'd set out a checklist that he has to go through, survive the checklist and he's here to stay.

But before he even gets to an NHL contest I'd say he has to be better than forward #9 by enough of a margin that his impact is worth the risk of hurting the dressing room by removing a player that has paid his dues.

All that changes in September and things re-set, but right now the Flames have been carried by a lot of guys further than anyone expected, and they have to respect that. Pushing say Lance Bouma out of the top 9 and Byron out of the lineup so a guy can go out and be less effective at both those players games does nothing for Bennett or the Flames.

But if he's a clear cut upgrade? You have to test it.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Bingo

All that changes in September and things re-set, but right now the Flames have been carried by a lot of guys further than anyone expected, and they have to respect that. Pushing say Lance Bouma out of the top 9 and Byron out of the lineup so a guy can go out and be less effective at both those players games does nothing for Bennett or the Flames.

.

Speaking of next season, I think it is worth mentioning again that when October roles around, Bennett will only be 3 months older than Monahan was when he made his NHL debut and that was a pretty big deal.

I think for an 18 year old to play in the NHL, it has to be a very special situation.

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The other issue too is the dressing room.

This is a tight group, and while Bennett has been around the team all winter he hasn't been part of the group that has gotten them here.

If I was Treliving I'd set out a checklist that he has to go through, survive the checklist and he's here to stay.

But before he even gets to an NHL contest I'd say he has to be better than forward #9 by enough of a margin that his impact is worth the risk of hurting the dressing room by removing a player that has paid his dues.

All that changes in September and things re-set, but right now the Flames have been carried by a lot of guys further than anyone expected, and they have to respect that. Pushing say Lance Bouma out of the top 9 and Byron out of the lineup so a guy can go out and be less effective at both those players games does nothing for Bennett or the Flames.

But if he's a clear cut upgrade? You have to test it.

You don't really know if he's a clearcut upgrade until he plays. But I think you've hit on a great point. Lots of people applaud the "always earned, never given" motto for pushing young players to earn their spots on the club. But in the game against the Jets, we saw the flipside come to fruition:
pressure from our prospects is forcing the weakest players in our lineup to up their game and Raymond, Bollig and Byron finally broke through.

Having a dynamic player like Bennett who has both the skill and the fire to make an immediate impact should motivate guys to up their games or they're going to be sitting. With that in mind, why would management want to commit to him going back to junior...even if that's where he is most likely to end up.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

If Bennett is good enough to play, and shows that he belongs in the NHL, then he should be playing in the NHL. It is just that simple.

It's never that simple though, because you have to consider the situational context as well.

If Bennett plays, someone else can't. When this team is healthy, we have too many forwards as is...so who sits out to make room for Bennett? Do you sit out a center like Colborne or Backlund? Do you now stunt the development of a guy like Granlund because he doesn't get in the lineup as often? He's shown he's good enough to play in the NHL, yet he isn't always making the roster either. What about Baertschi?

We're lucky in that we have the prospect depth to be patient with our players. This year, we can give ourselves the breathing space and focus on more mature prospects like Granlund, Baertschi, Ferland, to see how they fit in long-term. Next year, Bennett and Poirier enter the conversation. If anything, Poirier has done things much more deserving of a callup than a few good preseason games, yet there doesnt seem to be any debate around him.

Bennett's time will come. Yes, he might technically be able to play a regular game (if not necessarily succeed), and even be strong/developed enough (which personally I doubt), but from an organization perspective, for him to be in the lineup is by no means a priority...and in some ways, detrimental to others.

[Igster]

I love how hotly contested this is. Can't wait to see what happens when he is ready to go.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

So we have the GM basically saying that Bennett is going down because it makes no sense to put him in the lineup. What are people arguing about again?

Case closed. Back to junior.

People are arguing because some people are carrying a pompus, know-it-all type tone speaking in absolute certainties in regards to something they have very little actual insight in. Funny thing is those doing this don't limit it to this topic, they tend to do it all the time.

[Two Fivenagame]

If bennett can overcome all of this adversity and earn his way onto the roster of the big club, then he will have demonstrated he is a very special player imo.

Pacing at 1.6ppg with 118pims tells me there isn't very much for him to learn back in junior and Treliving has said that he believes the push for a playoff spot is the best environment for players to develop.

As a fan, i'd like to see Bennett sent to Ad for conditioning and then called up to be eased into a 4th line spot for 7-10 sheltered minutes and he slowly works his way up to 13-15 mins by the end of the season and flirts with supplanting Backlund/Jooris as the 2nd line centre.