2013 NFL regular season thread

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by OILFAN #81

ANNNNNNNNNND the Colts have a running game! Love the trade!!!!!!!!!!!!

Richardson and Bradshaw are now the RB's. Colts needed to improve the running game especially with Ballard out. Gives Luck another weapon to go with Wayne, Hilton, Fleener, Heyward-Bey.

You don't seriously consider DHBust a weapon do you?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

I wonder if this move isn't as crazy as it seems. Richardson has already had his share of nicks and bruises. His career YPC is around 3.5. If he was to have 350 touches this year for 1500 total yards, what would his trde value be? Could you trade a player like that for a second round pick? Most backs have about 6 good years, and two of Richardson's will be done after this one.

I think it is a good move for the Colts, but maybe it's not as bad for the Browns as it seems. Where it looks bad is that the previous regime moved past Minnesota to pick Richardson 3rd, when everyone knew the Vikings would draft Kalil, and after they lost out on trading for RG3.

It's a brilliant move for the Browns but it's tough to swallow for fans that they have thrown in the towl two games into the 2013 season. The reality is that if Lynch comes in for the 2013 season and maintains a very achievable 3.5 ypc average or better the Browns haven't lost really anything but a name in Richardson. There's a lot of talk in NFL circles that Richardson is a pretty average back and the Browns will go into the 2014 draft with 2 x 1st round picks, 2nd, 2 x 3rd round picks, 2 x 4th round picks, 5th, 6th, 7th which is a gold mine in the NFL where many picks are starters the following season. The defense is pretty solid and there will be plenty of opportunity to draft a franchise QB as well as a top RB and WR. It may not be pretty today but I think the Browns will come out of this well at the end as long as they don't bust on numerous picks.

[Drake]

Its the Browns so I fully expect them to screw up their draft next May with their 2 1st, 3rd, and 4th round picks.

Johnny Football in the AFC North could be fun as someone like Terrell Suggs would try to kill (not literally but you get the point) the cocky little puke.

[troutman]

One way of looking at the RB situation:

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...of_tren_1.html

For Browns fans upset with the deal, ESPN's Jeffri Chadiha says they should consider this: The team wasn't going anywhere with Richardson and he was expendable:

The beauty of this trade is that Cleveland understood that talented runners aren't hard to find in the NFL anymore. The Houston Texans signed their Pro Bowler, Arian Foster, as an undrafted free agent. The Baltimore Ravens found Ray Rice in the second round, while Kansas City nabbed Jamaal Charles in the third. Add in the fact that Washington's Alfred Morris -- a player selected 170 picks after Richardson -- gained a team-record 1,613 yards in his rookie season, and you get the picture. The Browns will have plenty of opportunities to make up for what they lost today.

[GirlySports]

the Browns are where they are because they take players like Trent Richardson 3rd overall.

What's gonna happen is this: the Browns are going to completely mess up by losing to the Jaguars in December and end up with the #1 pick. Then they'll take Bridgewater over Clowney because "Hey we just drafted Mingo we don't need Clowney" and then end up with the #20 pick from Indy and end up with a crappy QB and crappy D-Line again.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by valo403

Huh? First, nobody said anything about a franchise running back, and I'd argue that doesn't even exist in the NFL anymore. RB is the most replaceable position on the field. The Browns could quite easily draft a franchise QB with their first pick (assuming top 5), an elite player at any position with a mid to late 1st, and a starting RB in the 2nd-4th. That's a pretty reasonable draft. I'm also not sure why you're talking about the Browns drafting record when they have a new regime in place.

Ya OK .... has any team EVER drafted all that in one draft...ever.

Nevermind the nonsense about no franchise RB's anymore (Adrian peterson and Arian Foster say hi)...when was the last time Ckeveland drafted well? Joe Thomas?

The Browns would have better luck bringing back Jim Brown as a RB, Brian Sipe as their QB and Ozzie Newsome to catch balls than expect to fill those 3 positions with #1 starters.

I am actually a bit of a Browns fan, but nothing suggests they can turn things around like suggested in that kool-aid drinking article.

This is a microchasm of the Brown ineptitude since they re-joined the NFL..

"Including his signing bonus, the Browns paid the running back -- taken third overall in 2012 -- $13.8 million for what amounted to 17 games."

New "regime" or not, this club is what it is until they prove otherwise....inept at the game and business of football. Saying otherwise is both disingenuous and flat out wrong.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Ya OK .... has any team EVER drafted all that in one draft...ever.

Nevermind the nonsense about no franchise RB's anymore (Adrian peterson and Arian Foster say hi)...when was the last time Ckeveland drafted well? Joe Thomas?

The Browns would have better luck bringing back Jim Brown as a RB, Brian Sipe as their QB and Ozzie Newsome to catch balls than expect to fill those 3 positions with #1 starters.

I am actually a bit of a Browns fan, but nothing suggests they can turn things around like suggested in that kool-aid drinking article.

This is a microchasm of the Brown ineptitude since they re-joined the NFL..

"Including his signing bonus, the Browns paid the running back -- taken third overall in 2012 -- $13.8 million for what amounted to 17 games."

New "regime" or not, this club is what it is until they prove otherwise....inept at the game and business of football. Saying otherwise is both disingenuous and flat out wrong.

Has any team drafted a franchise QB with a top 5 pick? Umm, yes. Just a couple of times.

Has any team drafted an elite player with a mid to late round pick? Hmm, yeah once or twice.

Has any team drafted a starting RB in the 2nd - 4th round? Let me think, yeah that's happened a few times.

Bitch about past execution all you want, the fact is that making that happen is not at all unrealistic for a team that holds the picks the Browns will hold.

Oh and say "Hi" to Arian for me, the guy signed as an undrafted free agent.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

the Browns are where they are because they take players like Trent Richardson 3rd overall.

What's gonna happen is this: the Browns are going to completely mess up by losing to the Jaguars in December and end up with the #1 pick. Then they'll take Bridgewater over Clowney because "Hey we just drafted Mingo we don't need Clowney" and then end up with the #20 pick from Indy and end up with a crappy QB and crappy D-Line again.

I don't agree with that accessment as a QB is weight heavier than any other position. As a Raiders fan I also have my eyes on Bridgewater and unless his play totally falls off the face of the earth in the coming months I feel the Raiders would have to take him over Clowney if they were in that position. Cleveland is currently 0-2 and 6th overall in defense. What exactly is Clowney going to improve next season if they have the same QB's that aren't getting the job done? Clowney is the perfect pick for a team that already has a franchise QB but Bridgewater is looking like he could be a difference maker like Luck, RG3, and Wilson.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Drake

Its the Browns so I fully expect them to screw up their draft next May with their 2 1st, 3rd, and 4th round picks.

Johnny Football in the AFC North could be fun as someone like Terrell Suggs would try to kill (not literally but you get the point) the cocky little puke.

Who in Cleveland hurt you?

[troutman]

n/m

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't agree with that accessment as a QB is weight heavier than any other position. As a Raiders fan I also have my eyes on Bridgewater and unless his play totally falls off the face of the earth in the coming months I feel the Raiders would have to take him over Clowney if they were in that position. Cleveland is currently 0-2 and 6th overall in defense. What exactly is Clowney going to improve next season if they have the same QB's that aren't getting the job done? Clowney is the perfect pick for a team that already has a franchise QB but Bridgewater is looking like he could be a difference maker like Luck, RG3, and Wilson.

Agreed. There's no guarantees with any player, but Clowney isn't what the Browns need. Adding him at the expense of Bridgewater would be unbelievably stupid. Without a QB it doesn't matter how great your defense is.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Its funny but the Browns could have stayed at #4 and drafted Tannehill and drafted Doug Martin at #22 and kept a 4th and 5th round pick. Instead they drafted Richardson and Weeden, both likely to be off the roster in less than 2 seasons.

That would be why they're the Browns.

[Bobblehead]

Teams that are forever chasing the "franchise QB" should take a long look at their offensive lines before they do anything else.

I may not see a lot of Browns or Raiders games but what I do see seems like a lot of QB running for his life, being planted into the turf, or being listed on the injury report. It may be a result of poor quarterbacking or it may be a result of the rush getting to him before the receivers can run the routes.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Teams that are forever chasing the "franchise QB" should take a long look at their offensive lines before they do anything else.

I may not see a lot of Browns or Raiders games but what I do see seems like a lot of QB running for his life, being planted into the turf, or being listed on the injury report. It may be a result of poor quarterbacking or it may be a result of the rush getting to him before the receivers can run the routes.

I agree teams should do that. Joe Thomas (Tackle) is an annual Pro Bowl pick for the Browns (drafted 2007). Alex Mack (C) was drafted in the first round in 2009. No first round picks of O/L since then.

Offensive line offering Brandon Weeden little protection
http://www.cleveland.com/browns/inde...ive_lin_5.html

http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news/...c-7dc313f618df

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by valo403

Has any team drafted a franchise QB with a top 5 pick? Umm, yes. Just a couple of times.

Has any team drafted an elite player with a mid to late round pick? Hmm, yeah once or twice.

Has any team drafted a starting RB in the 2nd - 4th round? Let me think, yeah that's happened a few times.

Bitch about past execution all you want, the fact is that making that happen is not at all unrealistic for a team that holds the picks the Browns will hold.

Oh and say "Hi" to Arian for me, the guy signed as an undrafted free agent.

Good grief

Follow along now...

The article i quoted and commented on said that Cleveland could land ALL 3 of those guys as starters/franchise type guys in ONE draft....the next one.

I say, its never been done that i recall and certainly not by a team with the ineptitude behind them like the Browns, but feel free to prove otherwise.

Do you understand that now?

As for Foster...what does how he became a franchise RB have to do with anything said?

YOU claim there is no such thing any longer...remember this (court stenographer was paying attention)

nobody said anything about a franchise running back, and I'd argue that doesn't even exist in the NFL anymore

I pointed out, correctly I will add, that there are those kind of RB's in the NFL still.

And what about Adrian Peterson? Ray Rice? Doug Martin? LeSean McCoy?

Are those guys not franchise RB's?

Nothing like moving the goalposts and obfuscating things though. But carry on arguing....something.

[Drake]

Originally Posted by troutman

Who in Cleveland hurt you?

Does the bloody truth hurt ? Their draft history since reentering the league is hysterical bad. I have zero faith in the new regime doing the right thing with those picks since the Browns have proven time and time again they are a organization that put the word joke to good use. Clearly I'm so hurt by someone in Cleveland.

[troutman]

What one regime did has no relevance to what the next regime will do. Unless you believe franchises can be cursed. You could reasonably believe that about the Browns.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Good grief

Follow along now...

The article i quoted and commented on said that Cleveland could land ALL 3 of those guys as starters/franchise type guys in ONE draft....the next one.

I say, its never been done that i recall and certainly not by a team with the ineptitude behind them like the Browns, but feel free to prove otherwise.

Do you understand that now?

As for Foster...what does how he became a franchise RB have to do with anything said?

YOU claim there is no such thing any longer...remember this (court stenographer was paying attention)



I pointed out, correctly I will add, that there are those kind of RB's in the NFL still.

And what about Adrian Peterson? Ray Rice? Doug Martin? LeSean McCoy?

Are those guys not franchise RB's?

Nothing like moving the goalposts and obfuscating things though. But carry on arguing....something.

Good grief indeed, why are you so maniacal about this? You're asking me to follow along while I feel the need to hold your hand to make sure you don't dart into traffic.

Cleveland could quite easily land all 3 of those guys in one draft. It's not at all unreasonable to say that. A top 5 pick can get you a franchise QB, especially in this draft. A mid to late round pick could get you a 'stud' receiver (although I don't think that's where Cleveland would look) and a starting running back in the 2nd to 4th isn't a reach at all.

Take a look at any draft and consider what could have been taken with a top 5 pick, the 20th pick and a 3rd round pick. You could hit all of those targets easily. Whether the Browns will be accurate in their assessments and select those players doesn't alter the fact that it is a possibility.

Here's an example using this years class: Bridgewater, Boyd or Hundley top 5, Watkins at 15 and one of many 2-4th round projected backs. There you go.

As for Foster... what? He makes the point that you don't need to go out and draft RB's high to build a team. Christ, you make my point over and over again. Ray Rice, 2nd Round. Doug Martin, late 1st. McCoy, 2nd. AP is literally the only RB drafted in the high 1st to become a true franchise back in the last decade.

Why do you think Richardson was the ONLY RB selected prior to 28th in the last 3 drafts? Couldn't possibly be because the idea of building a franchise around a RB is pretty much dead, could it?

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't agree with that accessment as a QB is weight heavier than any other position. As a Raiders fan I also have my eyes on Bridgewater and unless his play totally falls off the face of the earth in the coming months I feel the Raiders would have to take him over Clowney if they were in that position. Cleveland is currently 0-2 and 6th overall in defense. What exactly is Clowney going to improve next season if they have the same QB's that aren't getting the job done? Clowney is the perfect pick for a team that already has a franchise QB but Bridgewater is looking like he could be a difference maker like Luck, RG3, and Wilson.

Originally Posted by valo403

Agreed. There's no guarantees with any player, but Clowney isn't what the Browns need. Adding him at the expense of Bridgewater would be unbelievably stupid. Without a QB it doesn't matter how great your defense is.

They can be first in the league in defense and win games on defense.

I think there's more than enough evidence to prove that "drafting for need" is a flawed philosophy as opposed to "best player available" Clowney is a can't miss stud. He doesn't even have to be DL. He's fast enough to be used as OLB in a 3-4 defense. Take a QB in the later rounds or even in 2015.

If they don't take Clowney, they really don't have a plan.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Are people really talking about Manziel being the #2 pick in 2014? Really??