General Ongoing Coyotes saga thread

[SuperMatt18]

Congratulations to the Coyotes. Hopefully this will all work out and they can actually get some stable ownership that will help to build on the success that they have seen in this years playoffs.

Originally Posted by Notorious Honey Badger

well i feel terrible for QC fans. they deserve a team for sure.

on the bright side this means cheap flights to Phoenix in the fall to see a Jets game and do some Arizona shopping and relaxing.

Don't worry about QC they will get their team in 2014/2015. Personally I don't think the plan was ever for the Coyotes to move to QC. Kansas City was always a much more likely situations with the league running the team their to gauge interest.

In my opinion the plan was always for the NHL to expand into QC and to add another team in Toronto at the new Markham rink in the 2014/2015 timeframe. I think the division realignment plan hinted at this plan when they had left two open spots in the two "Eastern" conferences, while filling up both of the "Western" conferences. The expansion fee for both of those areas will just be too large for the league to leave on the table.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Nothing is guaranteed yet, the GWI will still be reviewing everything and if the city is trying to gift taxpayer money to Jamison to cover loss then I'm sure they will take it to court and rightfully so.


Hopefully Jamison does not want to go through a lengthy legal battle and the deal gets quashed.

I doubt GWI will take it to court, and if they did, it would take years to litigate. They probably have a strong case, but they weren't prepared to litigate a similar case with the Cubs,

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by troutman

I doubt GWI will take it to court, and if they did, it would take years to litigate. They probably have a strong case, but they weren't prepared to litigate a similar case with the Cubs,

If it takes years to litigate then would that not achieve their goal to block the sale?

[troutman]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

If it takes years to litigate then would that not achieve their goal to block the sale?

I doubt a court would grant an injunction blocking the sale.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Nothing is guaranteed yet, the GWI will still be reviewing everything and if the city is trying to gift taxpayer money to Jamison to cover loss then I'm sure they will take it to court and rightfully so.
http://tucsoncitizen.com/arizona-new...-coyotes-case/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...ontent=2424848

Hopefully Jamison does not want to go through a lengthy legal battle and the deal gets quashed.

GWI has never demonstrated the willingness or ability to do much more than act as a vocal lobby group. They've had chances to sue and have passed on them. Add in the fact that the NHL, CoG and Jamison are well aware of their presence and arguments and I'd expect the deal is crafted very carefully to avoid giving them much in the way of legal grounds.

[Stay Golden]

So the NHL has been operating the Coyotes since 2009, is it about to come to an end and actual ownership will be in place finally, guess we will find out very soon when that will actually take place.

[Trojan97]

I haven't stayed up to date with this whole situation beyond viewing this threat every now and then. Who has the deep pockets in the Jamison group? Or is it a collection of guys who have broken open their piggy banks to make the leap into ownership?

[Stay Golden]

So Bettman comes out with this pop gun announcement yesterday that was much to do about nothing.

Ok so he has a former SJ CEO Jamison interested that has to still reach an agreement with the City of Glendale, a rink lease agreement and the financial details have tentatively been worked out, huh. Gary actually went public and made this an announcement.
Oh man i hope after 4 years this also blows up in his face again.
It doesn't matter who buys this team. The PHX fans do not show up Oct-Feb. Visiting teams fans do somewhat because the tickets are so available and tumbleweed dirt cheap.

[troutman]

Questions remain despite tentative deal to sell Coyotes


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle2425653/

Random thoughts:

What kind of out-clause will the new owners have? Is a future Glendale council bound by the decisions of this board (I assume it would be too punitive to break an agreement with the new owners, unless they allow the team to re-locate)?

Why isn't the NHLPA more vocal about teams being in better markets, and raising league revenues and salaries?

The Coyotes are over-achieving, and many of the key players are old (Doan, Langkow, Whitney, Aucoin, Morris). What do they have coming-up in the system? Can they continue to be a playoff team?

What does the NHL and new owners know about Phoenix, that we don't know? Eric D. suggests metro-Phoenix is expanding towards Glendale, with more residential areas.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

So Bettman comes out with this pop gun announcement yesterday that was much to do about nothing.

Ok so he has a former SJ CEO Jamison interested that has to still reach an agreement with the City of Glendale, a rink lease agreement and the financial details have tentatively been worked out, huh. Gary actually went public and made this an announcement.
Oh man i hope after 4 years this also blows up in his face again.
It doesn't matter who buys this team. The PHX fans do not show up Oct-Feb. Visiting teams fans do somewhat because the tickets are so available and tumbleweed dirt cheap.

More top level analysis from you.

This deal is well down the road, and while it still has some bridges to cross the fact that the announcement was made publicly demonstrates just how close they are.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by troutman

Questions remain despite tentative deal to sell Coyotes


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/sport...rticle2425653/

I really don't understand the concept that Goldwater somehow has the ability to completely scuttle this deal, who is giving these media members this idea? It seems like they are unable to process that this is a completely different arrangement than the Hulsizer deal, GWI speaking up isn't going to impact the financing as it did with that deal. The only way GWI can block this deal is by either swaying a vote on the Glendale council or through litigation, and the latter tactic wouldn't likely prevent anything in the short term.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by valo403

I really don't understand the concept that Goldwater somehow has the ability to completely scuttle this deal, who is giving these media members this idea? It seems like they are unable to process that this is a completely different arrangement than the Hulsizer deal, GWI speaking up isn't going to impact the financing as it did with that deal. The only way GWI can block this deal is by either swaying a vote on the Glendale council or through litigation, and the latter tactic wouldn't likely prevent anything in the short term.

Don't forget the 5 Tea Party guys at Dennys.

[woob]

I still think whomever buys this team will still lose money. I'm sure they're going to pick up some more ticket sales with this playoff run and a new marketing campaign via new ownership. However, it still comes down to one issue for me: Arena location. I think because of that fact and that fact alone, whomever operates this team is always going to be facing an uphill battle with filling the seats. Which is a shame, because if that arena were more central and within 30 minutes or less from any point in the city, I think they'd be filling those seats night after night. Maybe not sold out, but definitely better than I've seen the numerous times I've been there.

[Slava]

I don't know the whole deal and I'm sure that I'm not the first to mention this kind of thing in this thread. That said, I had the pleasure of attending Game #2 against Nashville last week and that's a beautiful rink. It was a great time and we (a group of four from Calgary) really enjoyed ourselves.

Unfortunately, to invest real money an investor would have to be a complete fool. The drive to the rink was about 45-60 minutes. Its in the middle of nowhere. That works for the Cardinals because people go there and tailgate, plus its a mere 8 times a year (plus playoffs). We drove and out parked and the one awesome thing about being a fan is that the parking was a few minutes walk and was free. That doesn't do much for the team though. I just can't see a lot of people making that drive 41+ times a year though.

The other part of the problem is that the businesses there (a few pubs and bars) also have no traffic. So while the game was fun and people were pouring out after the win, everyone basically went home. Can you imagine a similar scenario in any legit hockey market? Your team wins to go up 2-0 in the second round and there are empty pubs literally across a plaza 15 minutes after the game? Its crazy. The pubs aren't vested in the games at all, and didn't have any banners or decor up that would tell you the Coyotes were in the playoffs; there was no hint of it at all.

The reality is that no one cares there. I guess for a disclaimer I'll just say that there are much smarter people than me. But seriously to drop $170M based on what I saw, you would have to be either insane or planning on moving that team as soon as possible.

[woob]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don't know the whole deal and I'm sure that I'm not the first to mention this kind of thing in this thread. That said, I had the pleasure of attending Game #2 against Nashville last week and that's a beautiful rink. It was a great time and we (a group of four from Calgary) really enjoyed ourselves.

Unfortunately, to invest real money an investor would have to be a complete fool. The drive to the rink was about 45-60 minutes. Its in the middle of nowhere. That works for the Cardinals because people go there and tailgate, plus its a mere 8 times a year (plus playoffs). We drove and out parked and the one awesome thing about being a fan is that the parking was a few minutes walk and was free. That doesn't do much for the team though. I just can't see a lot of people making that drive 41+ times a year though.

The other part of the problem is that the businesses there (a few pubs and bars) also have no traffic. So while the game was fun and people were pouring out after the win, everyone basically went home. Can you imagine a similar scenario in any legit hockey market? Your team wins to go up 2-0 in the second round and there are empty pubs literally across a plaza 15 minutes after the game? Its crazy. The pubs aren't vested in the games at all, and didn't have any banners or decor up that would tell you the Coyotes were in the playoffs; there was no hint of it at all.

The reality is that no one cares there. I guess for a disclaimer I'll just say that there are much smarter people than me. But seriously to drop $170M based on what I saw, you would have to be either insane or planning on moving that team as soon as possible.

Agreed. They probably all go home after because they know they have a 45-60 minute drive ahead of them. Not a big deal on a weekend, but on a weekday when you have to get up for work early the next day and the game finishes at anywhere from 9:30-11:00, you're getting in the door pretty late.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by valo403

GWI has never demonstrated the willingness or ability to do much more than act as a vocal lobby group. They've had chances to sue and have passed on them.

You already know why, you said it yourself...

Originally Posted by valo403

It seems like they are unable to process that this is a completely different arrangement than the Hulsizer deal, GWI speaking up isn't going to impact the financing as it did with that deal.

... they never needed to sue. In the Hulsizer deal, chilling the bond market was all that was required to kill the deal. Had all the bonds sold, I suspect that GWI would have filed suit. Only a fool would spend money on a lawsuit that wasn't necessary.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

You already know why, you said it yourself...... they never needed to sue. In the Hulsizer deal, chilling the bond market was all that was required to kill the deal. Had all the bonds sold, I suspect that GWI would have filed suit. Only a fool would spend money on a lawsuit that wasn't necessary.

That would be valid if that was the only instance of them having an opportunity to sue and not acting upon it.

[Stay Golden]

I can't imagine what goes on in the mind of an extremely wealthy person capable of owning a professional sports franchise and just one day deciding... you know what I think I would like to lose about 6million a year I have too much. My wallet is just so fat I can't sit down.
Lets see with all those empty seats PHX loves golf. I'll put in a driving range.
Its madness to buy the Coyotes and keep them in Glendale.

[troutman]

Grange on Coyotes: Bettman's bill of goods


http://www.sportsnet.ca/iphone/hocke...n/?region=WEST

According to long-time Glendale city councilor Phil Lieberman, the terms of the deal being given to Jamison -- who has partners, apparently, but wouldn't name them -- basically see him guaranteed $306 million in management fees for Jobing.com Arena over the next 21 years, or an average of $14.6 million a year. A large chunk of that money is front-end loaded, with Glendale on the hook for $92 million over the next five years.

Lieberman says he shudders to think what hockey in the desert has cost the city he's lived in, worked in and served for most of his life after returning from the Second World War.

"I figure about $134 million in cold hard cash so far," he said. "Wow is right."

$50 million AEG paid upfront to Kansas City for the right to manage The Sprint Center (which was opened in 2007) through 2033. The arena was built with an eye toward attracting an NHL or NBA team. It never happened, but the city and the arena may be better off for it.

The flexibility the arena has in terms of dates without having to work around a sports team's schedule may actually off-set whatever benefits the facility might get from a sweetheart lease deal the club would surely command.

Since opening the Sprint Center AEG has turned a $6 million operating profit without an anchor tenant and been one of the busiest arenas in North America. So far the city's $14-million bond payment has been covered by a tax on rental cars and hotels. It's not like the city is swimming in cash thanks to their arena, but they're making it work and don't have the burden of under-writing a money-losing sports franchise.

[woob]

Here's a more PC browser friendly version of troutman's article:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2012/...ndale_bettman/