Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[SebC]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Really its why I have a hard time when people call any of them out for being a "career politician". Like if I wanted surgery done, I would probably prefer a "career doctor" to do it. Or have a "career accountant" do my taxes. Being a politician takes skills, experience and specialized knowledge as much as any other career path. And as much as I don't like him, PP is a good opposition politician.

The problem with politics is that the people who would govern well and and the people who are good at winning elections are not always the same people.

[timun]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Really its why I have a hard time when people call any of them out for being a "career politician". Like if I wanted surgery done, I would probably prefer a "career doctor" to do it. Or have a "career accountant" do my taxes. Being a politician takes skills, experience and specialized knowledge as much as any other career path. And as much as I don't like him, PP is a good opposition politician.

Being a politician does take skill, experience and specialized knowledge, no doubt, but you're conflating being a "good (opposition) politician" with being any good at being in government. Being a politician entails two fundamental skills:

1. how to get elected, and
2. how to stay elected.

Beyond that, the specialized knowledge and experience required is mostly "how to 'win' debates", "knowing whose palms you should grease", "how to cultivate a voting base, and how to 'score points' to keep that base happy." It has very little to do with knowing how to govern, making difficult decisions in the best interests of the citizens of the country, etc. It barely has anything to do with how to write policy and law, which really ought to be the very foundation of what a politician does.

[Firebot]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli...-interference/

Guess they didn't help him much.

Or maybe, there's a bit of an oopsie.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1666867280284614661

But hey, corruption, schmoruption, interference, schmorference, conflict of interest, meh, those are small potatoes. Let's hear more about opposition leader Poilievre's daily activities or non-activities.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by timun

Beyond that, the specialized knowledge and experience required is mostly "how to 'win' debates", "knowing whose palms you should grease", "how to cultivate a voting base, and how to 'score points' to keep that base happy." It has very little to do with knowing how to govern, making difficult decisions in the best interests of the citizens of the country, etc. It barely has anything to do with how to write policy and law, which really ought to be the very foundation of what a politician does.

Those are fair points, but it does also entail knowing how to work within the system on Parliament hill to get the sausage made - i.e., getting legislation through the process and enacted. Which is, fundamentally, a big part of what they're there to do. The actual drafting of the legislation is not really a thing that MPs are there to do.

[starseed]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Let's hear more about opposition leader Poilievre's daily activities or non-activities.

You are excusing Poilievre's bad behaviour by bringing up something completely unrelated to him.


Whataboutism should never be used to defend a public figure's actions and beliefs.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Firebot

But hey, corruption, schmoruption, interference, schmorference, conflict of interest, meh, those are small potatoes. Let's hear more about opposition leader Poilievre's daily activities or non-activities.

Everyone should just get on board with supporting a party that has all but completely sold out to corporate interests and wing nuts, no red flags or possible corruption there.

How come you never wanna talk about the great things the CPC will do instead of constantly playing “hey look over here”? It’s like you’re obsessed with the liberals and I honestly don’t think you could explain why you would expect any better from the CPC other than to say they’re not the liberals and pointing out things the liberals have done which frankly doesn’t make a very strong argument for the opposition regardless of how much crap they’ve pulled.

I mean you really don’t seem to want to add much to these discussions other than checking off the politics rhetoric boxes and criticizing people you don’t agree with politically, often by calling them names and acting as if you have some sort of moral authority over them which you certainly don’t.

Yes this may be a little harsh but I’m honestly just hoping that you’ll take it as a bit of a wake up call because regardless of whether you care about my opinion I honestly think you’re capable of much better than this. You seem like a reasonably intelligent person who’s just caught in a bit of loop, as are a number of people are when it comes to politics these days.

[JohnnyB]

This is just an opinion piece, and a lot of the language used in it is way over the top imo, but he captures something of how I see Canadian politics right now. Mostly it's embarrassing on all fronts, utterly uninspiring, and concerning in how it's slipping into a level of discourse that should be beneath the standards of elected representatives.

Canadian democracy is on edge — and China isn’t to blame
Chinese interference fears have gripped Ottawa. But appearing before House committees recently, I realised Canada should be scared most of its own MPs.
....
While I agree that Chinese interference is troublesome, a witch-hunt-like fever has infected lawmakers and reporters intent on “unmasking” so-called “seditious” Canadians reminiscent of the shameful purge of public servants only a few generations ago as a result of their left-wing politics and homosexuality.

It is dangerous and corrosive. People’s lives, livelihoods and reputations are being damaged by inept spies and their grateful conduits in the media and on Parliament Hill.

Indeed, I watched, sometimes with bewilderment, often in disgust, as a string of parliamentarians debased themselves and the country they supposedly represent, in search of a “gotcha” moment that might attract a reporter’s ephemeral attention or the approval of their party leaders who are more interested in stoking fear and conjecture rather than encouraging sobriety and the truth.

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2...-china-isnt-to

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Unfortunately, when criticism is consistently 100% one sided while offering zero criticism to other parties including against the current sitting government, especially when using a line of criticism that could easily be done for other parties, it's hard to take some posts credibly.

Hahaha oh my god, dude. Imagine lacking this much self-awareness.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Everyone should just get on board with supporting a party that has all but completely sold out to corporate interests and wing nuts, no red flags or possible corruption there.

.

Hard to tell which party you are talking about here

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by GGG

Hard to tell which party you are talking about here

Not really and I’m fairly confident you can figure it out.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Everyone should just get on board with supporting a party that has all but completely sold out to corporate interests and wing nuts, no red flags or possible corruption there.

How come you never wanna talk about the great things the CPC will do instead of constantly playing “hey look over here”? It’s like you’re obsessed with the liberals and I honestly don’t think you could explain why you would expect any better from the CPC other than to say they’re not the liberals and pointing out things the liberals have done which frankly doesn’t make a very strong argument for the opposition regardless of how much crap they’ve pulled.

I mean you really don’t seem to want to add much to these discussions other than checking off the politics rhetoric boxes and criticizing people you don’t agree with politically, often by calling them names and acting as if you have some sort of moral authority over them which you certainly don’t.

Yes this may be a little harsh but I’m honestly just hoping that you’ll take it as a bit of a wake up call because regardless of whether you care about my opinion I honestly think you’re capable of much better than this. You seem like a reasonably intelligent person who’s just caught in a bit of loop, as are a number of people are when it comes to politics these days.

Ok.

In the first 30 minutes of the video (all I have watched so far, to be honest) PP gives us a very broad look at the finances of the country for the past, I don’t know, 10 to 15 years.

Is there anything in that first 30 minutes that you disagree with?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Ok.

In the first 30 minutes of the video (all I have watched so far, to be honest) PP gives us a very broad look at the finances of the country for the past, I don’t know, 10 to 15 years.

Is there anything in that first 30 minutes that you disagree with?

Didn’t watch the video and it has nothing to do with what I posted.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Didn’t watch the video and it has nothing to do with what I posted.

I wouldn’t watch it either if I were you. Better to bury your head in the sand.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

I wouldn’t watch it either if I were you. Better to bury your head in the sand.

Sorry to burst your bubble but when people in a politician’s inner circle are willing to flat out lie to my face on multiple occasions to promote their guy and then embarrassingly backpedal like crazy when I point it out to them I’m not overly concerned about what that politician has to say to the media.

If you consider that to be me keeping my head in the sand then I’m sorry to disappoint you.

[Doctorfever]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

Sorry to burst your bubble but when people in a politician’s inner circle are willing to flat out lie to my face on multiple occasions to promote their guy and then embarrassingly backpedal like crazy when I point it out to them I’m not overly concerned about what that politician has to say to the media.

If you consider that to be me keeping my head in the sand then I’m sorry to disappoint you.

I promise you you won’t be sorry. It’s 30 minutes.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

I promise you you won’t be sorry. It’s 30 minutes.

Wager?

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

How come you never wanna talk about the great things the CPC will do instead of constantly playing “hey look over here”? It’s like you’re obsessed with the liberals and I honestly don’t think you could explain why you would expect any better from the CPC other than to say they’re not the liberals and pointing out things the liberals have done which frankly doesn’t make a very strong argument for the opposition regardless of how much crap they’ve pulled.

I mean you really don’t seem to want to add much to these discussions other than checking off the politics rhetoric boxes and criticizing people you don’t agree with politically, often by calling them names and acting as if you have some sort of moral authority over them which you certainly don’t.

Yes this may be a little harsh but I’m honestly just hoping that you’ll take it as a bit of a wake up call because regardless of whether you care about my opinion I honestly think you’re capable of much better than this. You seem like a reasonably intelligent person who’s just caught in a bit of loop, as are a number of people are when it comes to politics these days.

Opposition party does opposition party things, news at 11.

I've stated my position on the current CPC iteration multiple times, and the UCP as well. So much so I voted NDP in provincial elections and voted Liberal in 2015 (their deception being one of the main reasons I am so against them right now). I don't believe in party politics. I'm fully against Poilievre's embracing of the freedumb convoy and stayed such many many times.

But don't let that get in the way of some good old partisan apologism and whataboutism, and deflection on what is the biggest Canadian scandal since adscam (well unless you count WE but that got buried) to focus about what opposition leader Poilievre is doing today and the faux outrage.

The CPC hasn't governed in 8 years, yet you would think they would be the actual sitting government and destroying Canada the way certain people criticize all their actions.

Just the most robotic, unlikeable human being in Canadian politics today.

The Conservative Party needs to wake up and install a new leader. It’s painfully obvious that Pierre is trash and will never beat the Liberals.

I know I can never vote for the party with him as leader.

Is that person hired as a PP’s professional head-nodder?

You couldn't pay me to vote CPC, or for a repulsive toadie like Pierre Poilievre. He's a career politician who has carefully crafted a populist veneer; nothing more.

Leave it to a snide, hyper-partisan career politician who hasn't had a normal job in most of his adult life to work the political system and the only outcome is self-aggrandizing releases of policy wonk endorphins.

Wasn't he just dogwhistling to conspiracy theorists this week about why Justin stopped teaching? And when called on it in the media he realized he ####ed up and got soft like a puffball because what comes out of his mouth can have severe legal implications for him?

Being a career politician means he's been involved in partisan circles for so long it's hard to imagine he actually knows the plight of regular people - especially when he's in the wealthy class as a result of taxpayer money.

IMO people who are good grifters are the last people we should want as our representatives.

And you claim this sounds like a discussion? That's the last 2 pages alone. There are several posters who tried to have an honest discussion about the filibustering but it gets buried with this noise. And someone calls it out? Gotta bury that person and claim he needs a wake up call.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Opposition party does opposition party things, news at 11.

I've stated my position on the current CPC iteration multiple times, and the UCP as well. So much so I voted NDP in provincial elections and voted Liberal in 2015 (their deception being one of the main reasons I am so against them right now). I don't believe in party politics. I'm fully against Poilievre's embracing of the freedumb convoy and stayed such many many times.

But don't let that get in the way of some good old partisan apologism and whataboutism, and deflection on what is the biggest Canadian scandal since adscam (well unless you count WE but that got buried) to focus about what opposition leader Poilievre is doing today and the faux outrage.

The CPC hasn't governed in 8 years, yet you would think they would be the actual sitting government and destroying Canada the way certain people criticize all their actions.



















And you claim this sounds like a discussion? That's the last 2 pages alone. There are several posters who tried to have an honest discussion about the filibustering but it gets buried with this noise. And someone calls it out? Gotta bury that person and claim he needs a wake up call.

You’re the guy who actually believed the Sam Cooper story about Han Dong right? Poor Sam Cooper, thought he had Mark Felt as a source and he actually had Gordon Liddy, now Sam is out of a job.

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Doctorfever

Ok.

In the first 30 minutes of the video (all I have watched so far, to be honest) PP gives us a very broad look at the finances of the country for the past, I don’t know, 10 to 15 years.

Is there anything in that first 30 minutes that you disagree with?

I have no interest in sitting through 30 minutes of him talking, but I just went to a random spot in the first 30 minutes, and within a minute or two he was flat out lying, so that doesn't bode well for the rest.

Starting around 28 minutes, he makes a big deal about comparing the money supply during COVID vs. the Global Financial Crisis. To paraphrase him, he's saying that the current government engaged in reckless "money printing", whereas the Conservative government in 2007-2010 did not do that, and instead borrowed "real money," suggesting that money creation back then was much more restrained than during COVID. Essentially he's saying that the Conservatives' restraint was why inflation didn't happen then, whereas the Liberal government's "money printing" is why it's happening now.

But of course that's demonstrably false as the money supply growth during the 3-year periods during and after the crises clearly demonstrate:

Mid-2007 to mid-2010: 34.9% was added to the money supply

March 2020 to March 2023: 30.1% was added to the money supply

So the money supply increased by more under the Conservative government in those years than it did under the Liberals during COVID.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Firebot

Opposition party does opposition party things, news at 11.

How original.

I've stated my position on the current CPC iteration multiple times, and the UCP as well. So much so I voted NDP in provincial elections and voted Liberal in 2015 (their deception being one of the main reasons I am so against them right now). I don't believe in party politics. I'm fully against Poilievre's embracing of the freedumb convoy and stayed such many many times.

So far you’re not off to a great start in regards to responding to my point about not wanting to address about what good the CPC would do if elected.

But don't let that get in the way of some good old partisan apologism and whataboutism, and deflection on what is the biggest Canadian scandal since adscam (well unless you count WE but that got buried) to focus about what opposition leader Poilievre is doing today and the faux outrage.

Doubling down eh? I don’t see anything I wrote as partisan(unless I suppose if you work for the CPC) but you’re welcome to explain why what I wrote that was partisan. Or you can continue to play the victim, up to you.

The CPC hasn't governed in 8 years, yet you would think they would be the actual sitting government and destroying Canada the way certain people criticize all their actions.

Sure.

And you claim this sounds like a discussion? That's the last 2 pages alone. There are several posters who tried to have an honest discussion about the filibustering but it gets buried with this noise. And someone calls it out? Gotta bury that person and claim he needs a wake up call.

I don’t think it’s my responsibility to justify what other people post. I stand by what I wrote about your posting. You’re free to disagree with it.