2023/2024 Trade Rumors and Speculation Thread

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Bingo

It's one bad coach though isn't it?

Gulutzan.

Peters was a solid hire without any knowledge of his prior transgressions. He won the conference.

Sutter (his choice or not) certainly got the job done in year two.

Ward I guess was a bad hire, but to me he was second choice after Laviolette turned them down (my theory).

But for sure not trying to say Treliving was perfect, but that steaming mess left by Lanny was over the top and needed to be countered.

Peters wasn't a good hire. Let's put the transgression stuff aside completely, He missed the playoffs 4 straight seasons in Carolina before Treliving hired him. There was a lot of discussion around here wondering why Treliving went with him over other coaches with proven winning resumes in the NHL. And if I remember correctly, Treliving didn't even have a widespread interview process, he had a cup of coffee with Peters at the World Championships and that got him the gig.
Credit to Peters for winning the conference that one season, but that team may have gotten there and beyond with a better coach. Treliving needed a proven winner, Sutter type hire way earlier in that build of the team. I think the coaching hires factored into the inability of the team to actually make progress in the playoffs.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Bingo

So over the top ...

Treliving made his mistakes, they all do, but he certainly had his strengths.

Drafting was greatly improved.
RFA signings were always under expected.
Made some solid moves on the trade market (some not so solid).

People were pretty happy with him 11 months ago when he pulled off the Tkachuk trade. Things didn't go well after the fact, but that doesn't alter the original transaction.

To me it comes down to direction and who was driving the ship. Was it Treliving who was aiming to be a bubble team every year? Or was it ownership? I think we're about to find out.

Treliving's biggest mistake was believing in the core he had assembled. They just didn't get it done in the playoffs.

I also find the comment about Treliving leaving behind a steaming pile of #### be be either completely disingenuous, or lacks any vision beyond a foot in front of LM’s face.

Conroy had 7UFA’s (has 6) to reshape this team with. He has a tremendous opportunity to remodel this team. To your point, I’m very interested to see if he’s given the license to do it in a way that many posters here want, to rebuild.

This organization has as good a chance as any to redefine what the next 3-5 years look like. Until the TDL comes and goes, I’m not ready to pass judgment.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by TOfan

He’s [Treliving] not a bad GM.

Originally Posted by Bingo

Treliving made his mistakes, they all do, but he certainly had his strengths.

Let's hope Conroy has more success than "The Wizard" at building a functional team and organization.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Let's hope Conroy has more success than "The Wizard" at building a functional team and organization.

No argument there. I hope Conroy does have more success.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Let's hope Conroy has more success than "The Wizard" at building a functional team and organization.

Well thought out response.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Peters wasn't a good hire. Let's put the transgression stuff aside completely, He missed the playoffs 4 straight seasons in Carolina before Treliving hired him. There was a lot of discussion around here wondering why Treliving went with him over other coaches with proven winning resumes in the NHL. And if I remember correctly, Treliving didn't even have a widespread interview process, he had a cup of coffee with Peters at the World Championships and that got him the gig.
Credit to Peters for winning the conference that one season, but that team may have gotten there and beyond with a better coach. Treliving needed a proven winner, Sutter type hire way earlier in that build of the team. I think the coaching hires factored into the inability of the team to actually make progress in the playoffs.

Hardly a cup of coffee ... they worked together at a World Championships. That's in the trenches and far superior to any interview process in my opinion.

He won the conference. Not sure you can say no results in Carolina as a point, and then discredit his result in Calgary in the same paragraph.

The only Sutter types that come to Calgary these days are/were Sutter. He reportedly turned them down the first time.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Hardly a cup of coffee ... they worked together at a World Championships. That's in the trenches and far superior to any interview process in my opinion.

He won the conference. Not sure you can say no results in Carolina as a point, and then discredit his result in Calgary in the same paragraph.

The only Sutter types that come to Calgary these days are/were Sutter. He reportedly turned them down the first time.

At the point in time Peters got hired in Calgary...he hadn't done anything of note in the NHL, that's why I note it. And I literally said "credit to
Peters for winning the conference", not sure where the discredit is coming from.

If you want to base it on results, Bob Hartley won a round in the playoffs with an inferior team, and a Jack Adams ...yet most people around here would say he's a bad coach, I presume you would say the same.

My whole point is...Treliving hired a coach without a winning track record again after Gulutzan, and he shouldn't have. And he kept doing the same thing until he finally hired Sutter (which may not have even been his decision). His coaching hires were overwhelmingly bad for a team that should have been on the rise and trying to put together a contender.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Hardly a cup of coffee ... they worked together at a World Championships. That's in the trenches and far superior to any interview process in my opinion.

He won the conference. Not sure you can say no results in Carolina as a point, and then discredit his result in Calgary in the same paragraph.

The only Sutter types that come to Calgary these days are/were Sutter. He reportedly turned them down the first time.

I think Peters was a good hire and everytime you hear Huska talk you speaking pretty highly of him and how he had the team play in regards to transition and in the offensive zone.

He unlocked a lot of the offensive potential of the team.

I think we are going to see of that return this season with Huska as the head coach. A lot more creativity and cross ice passes and defense pinching hard through the middle.

He also reunited Gio and Brodie and got Brodie back to his game and Gio winning the Norris.

It ended on a sour note but he wasn't the the worst hire.

[dammage79]

Yeah, Trees greatest failure was his coaching hires. The FA signings and the Hamonic trade pale in comparison. Actually, I retract that on the Hamonic trade.

1. Hamonic trade
2. Coaching hires
3. FA signings (Brouwer, Neal etc.)

As for Peter's, I don't think he'd have last long even if he wasn't what he was and sent away. Looked like the team was already tuning him out in the early parts of his 2nd season.

Honestly I think the whole Peter's thing came at a good time. A blessing in disguise.

Now whats worse, the Gully hire or the Hamonic trade?

[sa226]

Don't forget goaltending.

Coaching and goaltending are Trelivings legacy here. I don't get caught up too much in the FA signings or trades, those were all moves of a GM whose mandate is to win now.

Goaltending could have covered for a lot of inadequacies throughout the lineup, the system or any sort of bench management issues. Of course if that is your reality, you're not winning a cup, but with proper goaltending and the core that this team has had, I truly believe there could have been a couple of mini runs over the last 10 years. Maybe a couple 2nd rounds, maybe a conference finals, maybe even a cup finals.

But this group wasnt going to win a cup I don't think. Unless every star in the galaxy lined up. And that's okay because it's really hard to do.

Sent from my SM-S918W using Tapatalk

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by sa226

Don't forget goaltending.

Coaching and goaltending are Trelivings legacy here. I don't get caught up too much in the FA signings or trades, those were all moves of a GM whose mandate is to win now.

Goaltending could have covered for a lot of inadequacies throughout the lineup, the system or any sort of bench management issues. Of course if that is your reality, you're not winning a cup, but with proper goaltending and the core that this team has had, I truly believe there could have been a couple of mini runs over the last 10 years. Maybe a couple 2nd rounds, maybe a conference finals, maybe even a cup finals.

But this group wasnt going to win a cup I don't think. Unless every star in the galaxy lined up. And that's okay because it's really hard to do.

Sent from my SM-S918W using Tapatalk

I can't blame him for the goaltending, every trade for one he made was based in sound logic and thrifty acquisitions costs. I blame the goalies more for their failures. Elliott especially.

I liked Talbot a bunch. And Smith was pretty okay too. Perhaps they kept Smith a season too long.

[FlamesAddiction]

Treliving as a GM is like a one-dimensional player who is electric in the offensive zone and will be on the highlight reels, but gets pinned in his own zone and is on the ice for as many goals scored against. He did some really good things, but also failed spectacularly at some things. Taken as a whole, he was probably OK overall, but not worthy of the cult-like following he picked up.

I'm with Lanny for the most part though. He had a his ups and downs and unfortunately left when it was down, so his replacement is starting a bit in the hole.

[Jiri Hrdina]

What is the "cult like following" you are referring to? He's faced a ton of criticism on here over the years.

[Hot_Flatus]

^^^This is fair and pretty bang on.

I would say that the infatuation with PTOs was a huge issue to be noted as well. It just sends a terrible message to the prospect base and creates an ineffective bottom 6 that the Flames have been dealing with for years.

As is/was the construction of the roster in terms of having so many UFA deals converging in 2024. In some respects it is out of your hands, but how on earth does someone in charge of the Flames roster allow this sort of UFA scourge to happen at once?

[dammage79]

Wouldn't say cult like following but can anyone recall a Flames GM who provided so much entertainment value to the franchise? Good or bad?

The two Hamilton trades were about as exciting Flames events since 04.

How he navigate Peter's gate was 100 percent all class and shone a good light on the whole situation.

The dude earned his his praise and earned his criticism at the same time.

I'll still never get over the Hamonic trade hated it from before it happened when every single rumor was all about the Flames going after him.

Oh and Gully.

[Aarongavey]

Brad took his organizations biggest strength (drafting) and consistently turned it into one of the organizations biggest weaknesses (professional scouting) by trading the picks for players who were inferior to the picks he traded. That in my mind will always be his legacy. Between 15-17 the Flames drafted 8 full time NHL players with 7 picks in the first three rounds.

His only trade that involved picks that was any good was the Hamilton trade, a trade where he was picking up a player coming off his 21 year old season. The rest of the trades involving picks were disasters for older players. Team would have been much better off staying committed to building out a team born between 93-98 and keeping the picks that were traded away. With the way the team drafted they would have likely got players at least as good as Dobson and Kyrou with those picks and potentially another good player or two.

[Calgary4LIfe]

What is a 'good coach'? I mean, what is it exactly? I think it is one (or both) of the of following:


1) Outperforms expectations
2) Playoff success



Based on my own personal definition, Treliving hired one good coach, and that was Sutter.



Gulutzan - Definitely didn't help Bennett develop. Didn't have any playoff success at all. Was there anything positive about his tenure in Calgary? I am sure there was, but I can't make an argument in support of him being a good coach. Didn't make the playoffs regularly, never out of the 1st round.



Peters - (ignoring the elephant in the room there), was he REALLY a good coach? He wasn't in Carolina. He came to Calgary and seemed like a fantastic coach, until the all-star game. Then the team came back seemingly 'off', and finished 17-14 the rest of the way. Playoffs come and the team looked rattled by Colorado. Either Peters wasn't able to calm his team down, or he simply got out-coached by Bednar (or both!). Then the following season this team is 12-12 under him (with a loud crowd on this forum hoping for a replacement), before the elephant in the room became known. I don't think 2/3rds of one season is enough to prove that he was a good coach.


Ward was an interesting hire. Sure, he did fine filling-in for Peters, and he was seen as one of those 'up and coming' coaches, particularly after his time in NJ as an assistant there where he apparently helped Taylor Hall really turn his game around. That season in which he was made official was a tough season with covid and all, but what I remember most was his press conferences where he seemed to not have any answers and looked like a deer caught in headlights at times. The team unquestionably disappointed with him as coach.


Sutter - Treliving was the GM, and he stated that he had already reached out to Sutter and got turned down at the time (after Peter's dismissal?). Well, Flames finally looked like a contender and even got out of the 1st round under him. That's enough for me to point at this hire as 'successful' - certainly more successful than all 3 of the previous coaches anyway. Sure, you can point at a tonne of issues that Sutter had to deal with in his last season to rationalize at what a disappointment last season was. However, there were some absolutely questionable decision making going on. In the end, I have to say he was successful, if one can base success as getting out of the first round.


Hopefully in the future we can look back on Huska and debate where he ranks in a list containing MacNeil, Johnson, Sutter, Crisp and Hartley. I hope that Hartley remains last in this ranking, as it means that Huska at least got out of the 1st round once, if not further and/or more often.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Bingo

So over the top ...

Treliving made his mistakes, they all do, but he certainly had his strengths.

Drafting was greatly improved.
RFA signings were always under expected.
Made some solid moves on the trade market (some not so solid).

People were pretty happy with him 11 months ago when he pulled off the Tkachuk trade. Things didn't go well after the fact, but that doesn't alter the original transaction.

To me it comes down to direction and who was driving the ship. Was it Treliving who was aiming to be a bubble team every year? Or was it ownership? I think we're about to find out.

Treliving's biggest mistake was believing in the core he had assembled. They just didn't get it done in the playoffs.

I'd like to push back on the RFA's. The RFA's came in at or slightly above market value.
2016:
Monahan 7 x $6.375M
Gaudreau 6 x $6.75M
MacKinnon 7 x $6.3M
Kucherov 3 x $4.767M
Forsberg 6 x $6M
Scheifele 8 x $6.125M
Barkov 6 x $5.9M

2018:
Hanifin 6 x $4.95M
Skjei 6 x $5.25M
Dumba 5 x $6M
Theodore 7 x $5.2M
Miller 4 x $3.875M
Trouba 1 x $5.5M
Pulock 2 x 2M
Montour 2 x $3.388M

--- Since Lindholm wasn't a #1 center I'm listing players around his 44P range
Lindholm 6 x $4.85M
Mantha(48P) 2 x $3.3M
J.T. Miller(58P) 5 x $5.25M
Zucker(64P) 5 x $5.5M
Domi(45P) 2 x $3.15M
Hayes(44P) 1 x $5.175M

2019:
Tkachuk 3 x $7M
Point 3 x $6.75M
Aho 5 x $8.46M
Guentzel 5 x $6M
Kyle Connor 7 x $7.142M
Laine 2 x $6.75M
Konecny 6 x $5.5M
Meier 4 x $6M
--- The top of the top players that year did get paid!
Marner 6 x $10.9M
Matthews 5 x $11.64M
Kucherov 8 x 9.5M
Rantanen 6 x $9.25M

2020:
Andersson 6 x $4.5M
Morrissey 8 x $6.25M
Toews 4 x $4.1M
Weegar 3 x $3.25M
Sergachev 3 x $4.8M
Deangelo 2 x $4.8M
Zadorov 1 x $3.2M
Nurse 2 x $5.6M
Cernak 3 x $2.95M

Tre did sign players to great contracts when we compare them to UFAs, but not other RFAs. He also had quite a few great bridge deals, but what he saved in the short term he had to pay later.

[rogermexico]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Peters - (ignoring the elephant in the room there), was he REALLY a good coach? He wasn't in Carolina. He came to Calgary and seemed like a fantastic coach, until the all-star game. Then the team came back seemingly 'off', and finished 17-14 the rest of the way.

Of all the recent Flames mysteries that I'd love to know the story behind, "What the hell happened during the 2019 All Star Break?" is the runaway winner.

[The Original FFIV]

came for trade talk, instead, found endless bickering of Treliving's record.

I know it's slow out there ladies and gents, but can we have separate threads on this? If anything put this in the doom and gloom thread.