[Rumour] Friedman: Devils and Flames have had legit discussions about Markstrom

[InternationalVillager]

Also- an additional note. In 99% of the cases, when you are acquiring an asset, you have to be comfortable that you had the best deal on the table whether $$$ wise or conditions wise or combination of both. If you never wanted to be the best offer, you would never make a deal.

If NJD feels like they might get upstaged due to another club upping their offer, there was never really a deal to be made in the first place since they were not clearly the best perceived deal in the marketplace.

Who knows? It might still end up getting done with NJD but Flames have every right to fully explore the marketplace to get maximum value for their asset.

[InternationalVillager]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Have you ever watched an episode of Shark Tank? People lose deals all the time because last minute they try and get a better deal and the side they were negotiating with gets pissed and walks away.

Yes-- people lose the deals because the Sharks have the leverage.

In this scenario, the Flames have the leverage because they are the sellers of the asset and time is not a constraint for them. It might ultimately be NJD who ends up losing the opportunity to acquire the asset.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Have you ever watched an episode of Shark Tank? People lose deals all the time because last minute they try and get a better deal and the side they were negotiating with gets pissed and walks away.

Sure and while I also stick to the old adage pigs get fat and hogs get slaughtered the art is all in how it’s communicated to NJ. If Conroy is honest / upfront about shopping around premium assets and not necessarily bonafide offers it’s fair game and likely every GM does this (how else do you test an opaque market?).

I’m sure Fitz gets it. It’s not rocket science and if he wants it closed faster, offer more or say your offer is only good for X time (and stick to it).

I doubt NHL negotiations mirror Shark tank negotiations very much.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Yes-- people lose the deals because the Sharks have the leverage.

In this scenario, the Flames have the leverage because they are the sellers of the asset and time is not a constraint for them. It might ultimately be NJD who ends up losing the opportunity to acquire the asset.

Well stated . No idea why others refuse to comprehend it!

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Yes-- people lose the deals because the Sharks have the leverage.

In this scenario, the Flames have the leverage because they are the sellers of the asset and time is not a constraint for them. It might ultimately be NJD who ends up losing the opportunity to acquire the asset.

According to Seravalli Jersey is out. So if that's true you just lost your best trade partner. He said he doesn't think it will get revisited because of how thr Flames went about things.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Hackey

According to Seravalli Jersey is out. So if that's true you just lost your best trade partner. He said he doesn't think it will get revisited because of how thr Flames went about things.

Now that is Fitz using the media to posture…… this is negotiation 101

[Heavy Jack]

It’s not helping that I’m reading much of Hackeys posts in the voice of Kenny Powers lol

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Have you ever watched an episode of Shark Tank? People lose deals all the time because last minute they try and get a better deal and the side they were negotiating with gets pissed and walks away.

Using Shark Tank as a reference for negotiating is as bad as using plus/minus to assess if a player is good defensively.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Sofa GM

Now that is Fitz using the media to posture…… this is negotiation 101

Could be true. But if Conroy now has to circle back Jersey knows the other offers might not be great. Realistically I have a hard time seeing what teams can beat a jersey offer in the first place. They by far have the best assets of the teams who could possibly be interested.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by InternationalVillager

Yes-- people lose the deals because the Sharks have the leverage.

In this scenario, the Flames have the leverage because they are the sellers of the asset and time is not a constraint for them. It might ultimately be NJD who ends up losing the opportunity to acquire the asset.

The Flames also have a limited market. I’ve seen more than a few deals blown once people felt like they were just getting pimped to secure a better deal for the other party. Really depends on the stage of the negotiations and general atmosphere. We’ll see how things shake out but Conroy could have taken out a serious dance partner assuming the Fitzgerald getting mad narrative is true and it wasn’t about retention

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Using Shark Tank as a reference for negotiating is as bad as using plus/minus to assess if a player is good defensively.

How do you figure? If you negotiate in poor faith people get in their feelings. That's pretty basic no matter what you're negotiating.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Could be true. But if Conroy now has to circle back Jersey knows the other offers might not be great. Realistically I have a hard time seeing what teams can beat a jersey offer in the first place. They by far have the best assets of the teams who could possibly be interested.

LA and Carolina have great assets they could use in a goalie trade.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Could be true. But if Conroy now has to circle back Jersey knows the other offers might not be great. Realistically I have a hard time seeing what teams can beat a jersey offer in the first place. They by far have the best assets of the teams who could possibly be interested.

As I said, GMs have a job to do. If Fitz is going to get his panties in a knot and not do a deal for an asset they desperately need out of spite and ego, he is a poor GM and it may cost him his job if it goes the wrong way for Jersey.

Watch Hughes, Hischer, etc. turn on him if this deal doesn’t happen.

[keenan87]

Devils on a 2 game winning streak.. back in the playoff picture

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by timbit

Well stated . No idea why others refuse to comprehend it!

Some people would rather start with their conclusion and gin up an argument to support it. That requires them to ignore any evidence or reasoning that doesn't lead them in the direction they want to go. In this case, the conclusion is, ‘And therefore the Flames are stupid and whatever they're doing is wrong.’

In fact, some people don't know any other way of arguing.

Originally Posted by Hackey

According to Seravalli Jersey is out. So if that's true you just lost your best trade partner. He said he doesn't think it will get revisited because of how thr Flames went about things.

It was never, in fact, established that Jersey was the Flames' best trade partner. It was precisely because Conroy wanted to know that the Devils walked out.

Meanwhile, Jersey has lost what is obviously its best trade partner, if what that organization wants is a clear-cut #1 goalie who is having a stellar season.

Logic suggests that the Devils will come back to the bargaining table before the Flames do. Fitzgerald is watching his season go down the tubes because he hasn't got a goalie. Conroy wrote his season off a long time ago and isn't desperate to move a goalie.

[timbit]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Could be true. But if Conroy now has to circle back Jersey knows the other offers might not be great. Realistically I have a hard time seeing what teams can beat a jersey offer in the first place. They by far have the best assets of the teams who could possibly be interested.

Don’t want to question your hockey acumen…but that is impossible to know.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Hackey

How do you figure? If you negotiate in poor faith people get in their feelings. That's pretty basic no matter what you're negotiating.

If A is negotiating with B, and B threatens to cut off the negotiation if A talks to any other letters, then A is not the one negotiating in poor faith.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Hackey

How do you figure? If you negotiate in poor faith people get in their feelings. That's pretty basic no matter what you're negotiating.

Why would you say Conroy negotiated in poor fait? Why is he solely obligated to work with NJ? For all we know they got close and the retention piece was the last hurdle and that is where it fell apart? Friedman was the one who said retention was a big stumbling block so if it wasn’t the fact the flames won’t retain perhaps it is the fact they couldn’t agree on that price and the opportunity for the deal to come back to life remains.

[Sofa GM]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Some people would rather start with their conclusion and gin up an argument to support it. That requires them to ignore any evidence or reasoning that doesn't lead them in the direction they want to go. In this case, the conclusion is, ‘And therefore the Flames are stupid and whatever they're doing is wrong.’

In fact, some people don't know any other way of arguing.



It was never, in fact, established that Jersey was the Flames' best trade partner. It was precisely because Conroy wanted to know that the Devils walked out.

Meanwhile, Jersey has lost what is obviously its best trade partner, if what that organization wants is a clear-cut #1 goalie who is having a stellar season.

Logic suggests that the Devils will come back to the bargaining table before the Flames do. Fitzgerald is watching his season go down the tubes because he hasn't got a goalie. Conroy wrote his season off a long time ago and isn't desperate to move a goalie.

At least in my eyes, Conroy is playing Fitz like a fiddle. Conroy seen their star player come out and speak negatively about their goaltending, coupled with it being highly publicized of the deal specifically with Markstrom, as such I think Fitz is in a really bad spot here. I think that is why he is so upset, he got owned in the chess game.

[AC]

I agree, New Jersey is in a bad position currently and Markstrom would immediately change the trajectory of their team.

Plus their best player just recently told the media "When we get the saves, it’s much easier to win."

NJ should be desperate to make the Markstrom trade work IMO. This talk of them being "out" sure reeks of posturing via the media.