2022 Toronto Blue Jays Off-season Thread

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

The Berrios we saw last year was just the beginning, he's actually probably going to get even worse. Every season since 2018 he's gotten worse. While last year was a larger fall off from the year before it was still following the trend downward and all the signs were that sort of drop off was likely coming sooner than later.

Not 100% true.

He was great in 2018 and 2019. Somewhat poor in 2020 but then 2021 was the best ERA+, and WHIP of his career. Highest strike out % and Lowest HR rate of his career.

He had a great 2021.

You have to hope that 2022 was just a blip, but I don't really see a trend there at all from 2018 to 2022 like you said.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Even with Berrios poor season last year, you still do that trade. SWR and Martin both look like busts, especially Martin. This is coming from a guy who was initially pissed right off when that trade happened.

The jays have 17 home grown players on their 40 man, including key guys like Vladdy, Bo, Jansen, Kirk, Manoah and Romano. The Rays only have 13 home grown players on their 40 man. I think the Jays are doing a solid job of balancing development and trading prospects for proven MLB talent. Especially when you look back and see that none of the prospects they've traded have really done anything to make you regret them being traded. (obviously time will tell with Moreno).

Everything anyone says here is debatable but not even looking at Berrios and what he’s become, compared to what Martin and SWR have become, at the time the trade looked like an overpay based on their potential. At that time. What each of them respectively has become is a hindsight story. I really think they could have received a better calibre pitcher for that price with some astute negotiating. I see the same thing playing out with the Moreno deal. Further, debatable but I really think a lot of teams are overvaluing the banning of the shift. Certainly they have those spray charts to see where guys like Varsho tend to hit, but 2nd basemen will adjust to position themselves where they need to. It’s going to be interesting to see how it plays out that’s for sure.

[Kasi]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

The Berrios we saw last year was just the beginning, he's actually probably going to get even worse. Every season since 2018 he's gotten worse. While last year was a larger fall off from the year before it was still following the trend downward and all the signs were that sort of drop off was likely coming sooner than later.

If you mean “other than 21 which was the best year of his career” then yeah sure. We know you hate Berrios and yes players as they get older do get worse but I think a player can continue to get worse with age but also get a bounce back from a career worst year. I expect like a 2-2.5 win player which is not as good as the 4 he did in 21 but should be okay.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by bluejays

Everything anyone says here is debatable but not even looking at Berrios and what he’s become, compared to what Martin and SWR have become, at the time the trade looked like an overpay based on their potential. At that time. What each of them respectively has become is a hindsight story. I really think they could have received a better calibre pitcher for that price with some astute negotiating. I see the same thing playing out with the Moreno deal. Further, debatable but I really think a lot of teams are overvaluing the banning of the shift. Certainly they have those spray charts to see where guys like Varsho tend to hit, but 2nd basemen will adjust to position themselves where they need to. It’s going to be interesting to see how it plays out that’s for sure.

What is more reasonable? Evaluating the trade based on what's happened since, or evaluating the trade based on some unproven notion that they "could have gotten more" that has no basis in fact?

Edit: That all sounds snarkier than I mean it to be. However, I don't agree that they could have got substantially better return.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What is more reasonable? Evaluating the trade based on what's happened since, or evaluating the trade based on some unproven notion that they "could have gotten more" that has no basis in fact?

I'm saying for similar packages of prospects others have received marquee names. While we'll never know what was on the table, we do know that two solid prospects at the time were dealt for a very good Barrios. When it comes to Varsho there's I still find it hard to believe other teams were knocking down the door to get him for the price they paid. They paid heavily through the nose.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by calculoso

The Skydome / Rogers Center is currently going through construction, so what was last year and what will be next season will be different in some aspects.

This was just posted yesterday - who knows what the final product will look like

https://twitter.com/user/status/1613643028333490176

Opened to media today, wonder how many more pics we will see

https://twitter.com/user/status/1615393631782973441

[calculoso]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1615393634634825748

https://twitter.com/user/status/1615393944354816002

https://twitter.com/user/status/1615394380214304787

[calculoso]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1615394849795997699

[KelVarnsen]

Article to go with all the tweets above

https://www.sportsnet.ca/mlb/article...for-blue-jays/

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Jiggy

Thanks! What's your take on the washrooms and concessions when it comes to the 100 vs 200 level?

Forgot to respond. Sorry. If you’re looking for quality washrooms look elsewhere. Very old school washrooms unless you have a private box. Ie: no dividers between stalls, every washroom has one stall and 20 urinals. Shocked it’s so bad really. To me that’s the worst part of the dome.

[Roof-Daddy]

Merryweather was claimed by the Cubs
Junior Fernandez cleared and was sent to AAA Buffalo

[Jiggy_12]

These new field dimensions highlight tremendously another reason why the Jays could not go in to next season with Gurriel & Hernandez in the corners. KK, Varsho & Springer will be able to handle this.

Will be advantageous against visiting teams with less than stellar defensive OF’s

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

These new field dimensions highlight tremendously another reason why the Jays could not go in to next season with Gurriel & Hernandez in the corners. KK, Varsho & Springer will be able to handle this.

Will be advantageous against visiting teams with less than stellar defensive OF’s

Certainly it’s the article sell of the day today. I’m completely skeptical of the OF defence stealing away that many runs as touted. Gurriel was bad at times, Teoscar was horrible many times, but they both generated more runs then this defence saving runs philosophy that’s being sold. Perfectly fine with moving on from both (happy moving on from teoscar) but the lack of line drivability from both guys has me very concerned as runs still need to be scored. Varsho has some potential with his HRs, but KK is pure speculative drivel we’re being fed and it’s being eaten up. He’s more or less going to be a sure out and I hate seeing that in a lineup.

[Kasi]

A sure out?

94, 101, 90 WRC the last 3 seasons. He’s still been an average offensive player so I am wondering where your assertion on sure out is coming from.

[Roof-Daddy]

Zimmer was a sure out.

KK is not.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Zimmer was a sure out.

Unless it's Verlander, apparently.

[flames_fan_down_under]

The Jays had a top 3 offense in baseball with Tapia getting over 400 ABs and providing sub par defense. With the addition of Kiermaier it's a wash offensively, with an obvious increase in defensive numbers. Springer will have less wear on his body in RF with an elite bat, Varsho will bring premium defense to his outfield position and has a similar OPS+ to Gurriel Jr. There will likely be a bit of a dip in team offensive production with the loss of Teo. The Yankees, Astros, Cardinals, Guardians, Dodgers and Mets all were in the top 10 on fangraphs team D metrics. That's every division winner except the Mets who had an identical record to the Braves with 101 wins. Run prevention is important.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by flames_fan_down_under

The Jays had a top 3 offense in baseball with Tapia getting over 400 ABs and providing sub par defense. With the addition of Kiermaier it's a wash offensively, with an obvious increase in defensive numbers. Springer will have less wear on his body in RF with an elite bat, Varsho will bring premium defense to his outfield position and has a similar OPS+ to Gurriel Jr. There will likely be a bit of a dip in team offensive production with the loss of Teo. The Yankees, Astros, Cardinals, Guardians, Dodgers and Mets all were in the top 10 on fangraphs team D metrics. That's every division winner except the Mets who had an identical record to the Braves with 101 wins. Run prevention is important.

I think infield defence is important as they get higher volume. OF, is the question of how many great plays truly save runs. I don’t have facts on it, it’s just my own theory that as long as you’re solid in the OF, greatness isn’t needed at the expense of a bat. I think in the OF a good bat should be the first aim, with average defence being acceptable. Subpar bat with great defence (which may be the case here) doesn’t seem like a good approach considering the amount of the pool they could’ve chosen from in OF.

[Kasi]

I did post a while back a comparison to how many outs the new OF would have gotten us over our old one.



It’s not some massive number but it is significant.

[ben voyonsdonc]

Brandon Belt had a 160 WRC+ season just a couple of years ago. He played in one of the most pitcher friendly locations. If he can even get to a 120 WRC+, I think he’ll help make up for a good amount of the offensive contributions lost.

Last year, the team often struggled with the fundamentals - moving guys over, baserunning, throwing to the right base, timely hitting, etc. If we can tighten up around the margins, I think we will probably be a more well rounded team which doesn’t try to make up for weaknesses by relying on hitting the cover off of the ball.