Brad Treliving needs to go

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

At a time the Flames badly needed a top 6 RW his big trade is to give up a 1st and two 2nd round picks for Hamonic whose stock dropped so much that he's making league minimum today. Brad Treliving everyone.

I mean, we really acknowledge now, but my god, what a stupid, brutal trade. May be his worst decision above Neal.

[Badgers Nose]

Or not getting a pick for Sam before - or at least shortly after - this drama about wanting to leave started.

[Igottago]

Treliving hitched his wagon to some bad coaches, and did it again with Ward. Even if the rest of his body of work has good aspects to it, that's pretty much unforgivable. All the good work he did with contracts is out the window because he couldn't hire the right person to steer the one ice product since turfing Hartley. Its been long enough, he's had his chance, and wasted his rebuild's contention window. I don't really see how the organization lets this stand.

[Jiri Hrdina]

John Bean is the president and CEO.
Suspect he would need to go to ownership and recommend exiting BT.

[8sPOT]

I just think its easier and more efficient to replace the coach with an experienced, qualified candidate. I also think Treliving is either not allowed to change the coach again, or unwilling to given how many he's gone through, all of which were questionable hires. And who would take over as GM? Certainly not Craig Conroy.

A non-rookie, non-experiment head coach is something we haven't seen with this group. What if a Boudreau or Gallant is just the change up this team needs?

To me Treliving's biggest downfall has been his weird obsession with off the board coach hiring's. All of which have backfired in some way. The players are surely part of the problem but the style of play, or lack there of, speaks to coaching.

If our D core is so good, why do Markstrom and Rittich keep coming out of the net and making risky/awful plays? Seems like coaching to me.

Often the team will have the puck and control play for a time, until someone tries a cute backhand sauce pass, and the other team rushes down the ice for an odd man rush. Thats coaching, or a lack there of.

This group as a whole seems to be 'fragile', in other words, the going gets tough, they dont get going. That to me is partially coaching. Lift them up when they're down, keep them grounded when they're up. I have no idea what Ward's coaching style is because it seems non-existent.

One thing is clear. This team as is, with this GM, and with this HC, are not going to win or even contend for a Stanley Cup. Lack of any type of change is the hardest part right now as a lifelong fan.

[SilverKast]

- Re-signing or negotiating with our existing contracts - he's done quite well
- Free agency - fail based on Brouwer, Neal alone
- Trades - sort of a wash - Hamilton was good, but Hamonic was awful even at the time
- Drafting - meh, we traded away a bit of draft capital to begin with and we never finished low enough to get a really high draft pick
- Coaches - we've gone through a number so probably not so hot

Overall we're left with a team full of meh, and that's how they play. No heart, no apparent effort or give a ######, and no direction. Add in a shallow prospect pool and we're looking to be stuck in mediocrity (at best) for quite some time yet to come.

It would be nice to think things will improve, but the old saying applies "insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result". Well our results suck, so something needs to change.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Treliving hitched his wagon to some bad coaches, and did it again with Ward. Even if the rest of his body of work has good aspects to it, that's pretty much unforgivable. All the good work he did with contracts is out the window because he couldn't hire the right person to steer the one ice product since turfing Hartley. Its been long enough, he's had his chance, and wasted his rebuild's contention window. I don't really see how the organization lets this stand.

First thing Treliving did that was dumb was listen to the players and gave them their wish of firing Hartley. You never give players that kind of power because then they know they have it. He shot himself in the foot right there. He should have analyzed the room himself and spoke to staff around the team and then made his decision.

So he goes off and hires Mr. Nice Guy to appease the young core. They don't listen to him and openly mock and laugh at him when he tries to be Mr. Tough Stick Thrower.

Treliving then realizes his mistake and brings in someone who is tougher than GG but not as psychotic as Hartley. We know what happened then.

You would think Treliving would have learned by now what type of coach is needed for this core. Someone who isn't going to get pushed around by the players because of a) his personality and b) his wealth of experience in the game and in particular as a head coach.

Treliving got dealt a bad hand, I'll give him that, with the Peters thing and then the Covid thing on top of it. It gave Ward just enough time to succeed with a new coach bump, but also saved him before the team tuned him out. Then they had the big break and the players were eager to come back and listen and they did for a bit, for about 6 games.

No doubt this is Treliving's mess. HE created the culture of entitlement for the players by empowering them too much at the beginning, then when he figured out the problem and was dealt a bad hand, instead of sticking to what he had learned about the core (ie, they needed a strong guiding hand as coach) he went back to his mistake or hiring another Mr. Nice Guy.

Yes, the players are at fault and the coach sucks, and its clear why this is the case.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Joborule

I mean, we really acknowledge now, but my god, what a stupid, brutal trade. May be his worst decision above Neal.

For all the talk about Treliving learning from his mistakes, he sure didn't in this case. Once he realized Hamonic was not much more than a depth D, he really should have recovered whatever picks he could have.

I've said it before, the Lazar and Hamonic trades were not crippling, but they were huge red flags about his approach to valuing his own picks and opposition players.

[Buff]

I think you need stability in management. There have been posters who have been calling for Treliving to be fired for two or three seasons now, if not more. I disagreed at that time, however, I'm really starting to lean the other way.

I don't necessarily think that Treliving is a bad GM, but the team isn't doing well at the moment and that can be traced back to Treliving. Several people opine about how he hasn't made a significant move within a season. He typically likes to do his big moves in the off season, and I can understand that and get behind it. However he isn't sitting on his hands in the off season on principle, he has made changes, and he has made attempts to make a big change but that just hasn't worked out.

His biggest shortcoming is his choice in coaches. Gulutzan just didn't work. Ward is simply not working. Peters got the team going but it started to fall off the rails. I wonder if he could have turned it around if not for his history coming back to bite him. It didn't seem like he was going to turn it around though.

Coaching choices have been terrible. The players seem to be a group that knows they have power over coaching because Treliving has chosen to change coaches without significant changes to the core, or at least to the parts of the leadership core. He did move out Hamilton and Ferland for Lindholm and Hanifin, and I think that trade is looking good, but none of the players involved in that trade are designated to wear a letter. It is quite clear that the players who have been around for a while are still a part of the problem. They've quit on the coaches, they've quit on their teammates, they've quit on themselves. Most importantly, they've quit on their supporters. Sentiment among fans is ugly right now.

So here we are. Treliving needs to make a move to shake up the team. A coaching change can help to begin the process, but it is clear that this group of players and the leaders will tune out that coach in short order too. Treliving needs to shake up the core in a big way. Fortunately he doesn't seem to be set to make a change for the sake of making a change. He seems to be willing to get value, or what he perceives to be value. That is where he has painted himself into a corner. He waited too long to move out a core leader and now the entire league knows that he is under the gun to do so. Nobody is going to give Treliving what he wants/needs to get for a player like Monahan, Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Backlund Giordano or whoever else he feels like moving. They're going to try to take advantage of Calgary's situation and Tre won't budge if he's not getting his fair value. Add to the fact that some/most of those players are simply not going to bring back as high of a return as they would have two or three years ago due to their inconsistency over the past few seasons.

Treliving has painted himself and this franchise into a corner. I think somebody else needs to step in to clean up this mess and that somebody else better be experienced and competent and not your latest bargain bin hopeful.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

For all the talk about Treliving learning from his mistakes, he sure didn't in this case. Once he realized Hamonic was not much more than a depth D, he really should have recovered whatever picks he could have.

I've said it before, the Lazar and Hamonic trades were not crippling, but they were huge red flags about his approach to valuing his own picks and opposition players.

It's a major concern when your GM will go balls out for a guy like Hamonic and be willing to lose, but not up for making a move to shake up the core after attempt number 4 of finding a way to make them better than they are.

Heck, if those moves aren't there in the current climate, you can at least bring in one of the many top 6 calibre UFAs that were available for months and find a way to clear the cap space to do so. At the very least you give the lineup a shot in the arm and provide your inexperienced coach something new and useful to work with.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Well, I am actually disappointed that there are no news right now.


In any given 82 game season, a team knows what they are by around game 20. Yesterday was gave 23. This season is only 56 games long, so the flames have 33 more to go. They have already played 41% of the season.


Is there a single person on these boards that feels change is unwarranted, and that this team is about to 'turn a corner'?


There have been few games this season where I thought that the Flames were the better team. Markstrom stole some games until his heroics got him injured, and Rittich has stolen a game (3 points against Toronto when outside of goaltending and a tremendous effort on the PK, the Flames didn't deserve a single point).



I didn't post in the 6-3 over Ottawa, as I didn't want to be a party pooper. I felt that the Flames definitely won that game and deserved to win it, but boy did I see an Ottawa team that didn't want to give up and they were facing a team that kept giving them reasons not to give up. Flames are atrocious in their own zone and on the transition both ways. They are inept in the offensive zone now too - just pass it around until someone takes a shot (usually contested, and often just deflected) and then the puck goes the other way into a scoring chance. Sure, Flames generate scoring chances, but it seems to be getting worse, not better.


Flames are a hot mess in every zone. Period. They aren't playing fast. They aren't playing tough. They aren't playing a skill game. They aren't playing a defensive game. They aren't playing uptempo. They aren't playing trap. They aren't playing anything except forcing their goalies to over-extend themselves in trying to do their job, and getting worn out.



This is the most boring team in the NHL now. Yes, I do think that the Wild are more fun to watch. Ditto the Devils and Arizona. This is the most boring product currently in the NHL, and it isn't even winning games.


To be 23 games in and not having canned the coach as a start, is unacceptable to me. I 100% figured he would be relieved this morning. 41% of the season is over. This team is trending the opposite way. Those 3 points vs Toronto was total lipstick on a pig - I believe Rittich can be a decent goalie, but he literally turned into a Vezina finalist for those two games for the Flames to get those points. I saw it, and most of the people posting here saw it too.


Then to lose 2 out of 3 games against Ottawa? Losing twice in blowouts to boot?



I am firmly now on the Treliving should be relieved bandwagon. This is an unacceptable season both from a success perspective, and from a complete lack of entertainment perspective. This is the most awful team in the NHL to watch right now. Anaheim is more entertaining and that team looks dead to me.



Things are not even trending in the right direction. This team looks like it is playing worse on a night-to-night basis.



I stomached the Young Guns era. I watched a tonne of those games - didn't give up on the team. Hey, they sucked, but they were never THIS boring to watch. Sure, they had a number of stinkers, but they were never THIS BAD, and definitely never even remotely close to this boring. Those teams sucked, but it was much easier to watch them and support them then. Why? I accepted the fact that the Flames simply couldn't compete with the other NHL cities fiscally. I accepted them essentially being a feeder team or a farm team of sorts, but I felt lucky having a team to cheer for here in Calgary all those years, especially after the 'scare' of almost losing them, and watching Winnipeg and Quebec lose theirs. I felt lucky as a fan. I understood that they simply couldn't compete with the other NHL cities.


Well, what's the rationale now? This team is the most boring team in the world right now. They are terrible in all 3 zones. They can't score, can't defend, barely seem to hit, barely make plays...



Sorry, but this is game 23 of a 56 game season, this is the worst team I have ever seen wear this jersey, they are the most boring team, the least successful and they are getting worse on a game-to-game perspective.


Montreal made a change already. So did Pittsburgh (of sorts).


Teams have traded 'superstar level' players this season.


There is no excuses to be made. To be in this situation is inexcusable right now. Treliving and his insistence on 'Babcock hockey' can GTFO already. Treliving should have woken up after Gulutzan. Should have woken up after Peters. Should have woken up 5 games ago at least with Ward. Heck, he should have woken up to Babcock himself over the last number of seasons he has been a coach - it is crap.


I am 100% on board now with relieving Treliving. Never thought I would really end up on this side of the fence, but here I am.



7 years in, and the best success this team has had was inheriting Feaster's team (and Sutter's team - quite a number of players from Sutter's time made huge contributions as well).



I declare this rebuild a failure. No, not a failure. A disaster.


I am looking at a team that is looking like bona fide contenders - for the first overall pick. I have not seen a team in 7 seasons that even achieved the level of 'bona fide playoff participant'. It seemed like they did, even with the adversity of last season, and the promise of this season - but here we are.



Time to move in a different direction under new management and coaching. I don't know who is out there. I don't care. All I know is that this team is unsuccessful and it is boring as hell, and another season is about to slip away, and it is happening without even a whimper.

[dirk diggler]

Originally Posted by Joborule

I mean, we really acknowledge now, but my god, what a stupid, brutal trade. May be his worst decision above Neal.

this was a GM who felt like his team was that one piece away from being a contender, so you give up 3 high picks for an average d man. clearly overrated this team and made a horrible trade.

[Ashes]

Here we are 7 years into Tre's tenure with a .500 team, no hope of going on a deep playoff run even IF we make it in to the playoffs IMO, and most importantly to me as a fan.. we are playing some of the most uninspired, lazy, soft hockey in the league. Something's gotta give.

I think one of the biggest problems with this team is that we have no culture, or if we do, its not contributing to any sort of success or team identity. I'm not a Hartley apologist but one thing that guy did right from day one was instill a team motto "Earned, Never Given". Every player worked their ass off cause they knew exactly what was expected and what the repercussions would be for not working hard.

No one knows what the identity of this team is, least of all our head coach (other than inconsistency). This is the NHL, if the coach can't build an identity for this hockey team then he's not the right guy for the job, plain and simple.

Which brings us to Tre.. wtf man. Stop hiring goof's. Stop sitting on your hands when it comes to shaking up this core. Take some chances. It can't be any worse than it's been, trust us on that. These problems go back before the pandemic.

IMO this team has clear issues with the core, leadership, and coaching, and not just this year, but I have no faith that this front office has it in them to fix it properly.

I'm ready to see what this team looks like with a new GM.

[DeluxeMoustache]

I do not expect much change in season.

Coach was just hired so firing him forces BT to admit he screwed up. Not likely

Calgary players of value are mainly on really good contracts. You have to work pretty hard to get equivalent capability of player for similar dollars, so the most likely other option is blowing up and selling off. It would be another dramatic admission of failure (and kind of crazy to blow it up) when your core F assets are between 23 and 27 and all signed to team friendly contracts.

No spectators, no gate revenue, so owners won’t see much material impact this season by forcing something

I’ll be pleasantly surprised if something happens because I’m not entertained, and I do not see a path whereby this GM instills a culture that is accountable, detail focused, results oriented and successful

[ComixZone]

Brad Treliving is the Glen Gulutzan of General Managers.

[Enoch Root]

For those that didn't read his post because it was long, I wanted to reiterate this...

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

it seems to be getting worse, not better.

Flames are a hot mess in every zone. Period. They aren't playing fast. They aren't playing tough. They aren't playing a skill game. They aren't playing a defensive game. They aren't playing uptempo. They aren't playing trap. They aren't playing anything except forcing their goalies to over-extend themselves in trying to do their job, and getting worn out.

This is the most boring team in the NHL now.

Time to move in a different direction under new management and coaching. I don't know who is out there. I don't care. All I know is that this team is unsuccessful and it is boring as hell, and another season is about to slip away, and it is happening without even a whimper.

[Enoch Root]

It is time for change.

I know there are concerns, specifically, it is hard to trade during covid, and the draft this year will suck. I don't agree on either. In fact, it may turn out to be a great draft because the group will get another year in before the draft, and being 19 vs 18 is a big advantage, that should (at least partially) make up for the current uncertainty and lack of games.

What I think they need to do:

1) fire the coach and GM

2) bring in Sutter to finish the season and evaluate the players

3) start moving out the core at the deadline - and I mean all of them. The way to make it doable is to take salary back. If you are willing to take back dead salary, you should be able to get a bunch of picks/prospects because, no doubt, other GMs are also worried about the upcoming draft

4) let the new GM hire their coach in the summer - under the condition that it is a top name, experienced, high level guy.

Considering that the Flames have several top players that are in the 23 to 27 range, they should be able to acquire a ####load of assets for them, and turn this around in a reasonable length of time

[DeluxeMoustache]

^ do you think Sutter takes a ~30 game job, no strings attached?

[Psytic]

Im used to having a poor team but what really grinds me gears is every other Canadian team either looks better right now or debatably has a brighter future.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Sutter is the wrong coach for this team. They can't and won't play his game. Sutter was never one to adjust to the team, he adjusted the makeup of the team to fit his preferred style of play. Sutter would be as much a failure here as every one of Treliving's hires.