Canadian Federal Politics Thread v5

[shotinthebacklund]

There is more to come on this story, don't kid yourself. We have seen a emerging pattern, where the government is given the opportunity to come forward and make things right, they decline to do so and further throw themselves and anyone else they can under the wheels. Leaks come forward following this, adding depth to the level of concern to this file. We are one what? step four or five by now? There are skeletons in those closets shaking their bones to come out.

[Firebot]

Originally Posted by opendoor

You think CSIS leadership is deliberately timing their briefings of MPs to make the government look bad (even though, as the story I linked clearly states, they contacted Kwan 3 weeks ago)? OK...

Yeah, that's much more plausible than the government changing CSIS policy in response to the leaks so that the threshold for notifying MPs is significantly lower.

So you completely ignored my outline of events, ignore the details of the targeting that occurred, ignore the Johnston report flaws, ignore the reason why we are discussing these after Chong's revelations (thanks to CSIS leaks) and instead solely focused on the timing of Kwan's briefing just so you can give kudos to Trudeau for his May 10 order (which again as I stated he only did so after he was caught in a contradiction and was forced to act).

Kwan got contacted by CSIS 3 weeks ago, thus refuting everything else. O'Toole only got briefed on Friday, but that's clearly coincidental due to said prior order.

Is that really your line of argument you are choosing? If CSIS is just abiding with Trudeau's request which as you state (and likely correct) they are doing and was not in retaliation for the Johnston report, does it invalidate anything that is being reported right now? In the end these all occurred in the past and present, there was indeed foreign interference and nothing was done by our government despite being briefed on the matter, while we have Johnston saying "nothing to see here move along now".

I am wrong on the CSIS timing for the briefing. Does that truly change anything? Johnston still did his report and recommendation for no inquiry.

What's your stance on the Trudeau Foundation board quitting en masse? What's your stance on Chong being targeted and not being informed? Do you think this is the last of the CSIS leaks or revelations and still do not need a public inquiry (I mean O'Toole being targeted is pretty big)?

[Duruss]

Given the outcome of the Alberta Provincial election this federal bill might be timely for Alberta's disabled. Bill C-22 has massive transformational potential to lift disabled Canadians out of poverty.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli...amendments-to/

[Firebot]

https://globalnews.ca/news/9732593/e...-interference/

Former Conservative Leader Erin O’Toole says the Canadian Security Intelligence Service (CSIS) found an “active campaign of voter suppression” by China against him and his party in the 2021 election.


O’Toole made the comments Tuesday from the floor of the House of Commons, within which MPs are protected by parliamentary privilege from civil or criminal prosecution under freedom of speech provisions. His speech comes after a briefing with CSIS last week.

“I also believe my privileges as a Member and officer of Parliament were infringed by the government’s unwillingness or inability to act on the intelligence related to foreign interference,” O’Toole said.

“The briefing confirmed to me what I had long suspected – that my party, several of my caucus colleagues and myself were the target of a sophisticated misinformation and voter suppression campaign orchestrated by the People’s Republic of China before and during the 2021 general election.”

Well here we go. It didn't take long for the next bombshell.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Well it depends on the details. If CSIS had good reason to believe that whatever info Chinese intelligence was collecting would eventually escalate to something that could cause harm to the MPs' families, then there would be good reason to be concerned. But yeah, it's also possible that it's also relatively standard international intrigue.

In which case, they should just explain that to the public. They don't need to go into details if that's secure info, but they could at least indicate that it is the case. As is, it seems like this went on for years with nothing actually being done by China to threaten anyone in any way and it's only via CSIS telling people that they're 'targeted' that anyone has come to feel threatened, and the empty reporting on it is whipping up more fear based on filling in the information gap with people's worst assumptions.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Firebot

https://globalnews.ca/news/9732593/e...-interference/



Well here we go. It didn't take long for the next bombshell.

None of this was covered in Johnston's report.

[Bonded]

I am disappointed they didn't give O'Toole another campaign. I think he could have won the next one

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I am disappointed they didn't give O'Toole another campaign. I think he could have won the next one

O’Toole lost, proceeded to tell the party exactly what they needed to hear and point in a direction that clearly would’ve led them to victory, so they booted him for it.

The far right has too much say in that party and not enough representation in key tidings throughout Canada. He pandered to them, he lost, he correctly identified that they couldn’t pander to them any more, and he got ousted.

Idiots running the show there, truly.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

O’Toole lost, proceeded to tell the party exactly what they needed to hear and point in a direction that clearly would’ve led them to victory, so they booted him for it.

The far right has too much say in that party and not enough representation in key tidings throughout Canada. He pandered to them, he lost, he correctly identified that they couldn’t pander to them any more, and he got ousted.

Idiots running the show there, truly.

Yeah O’Toole was palatable before the election and somewhat afterwards (though he still gets into the far right rhetoric at times) but during the campaign he went to the red meat base and lost votes.

[shotinthebacklund]

The old, its actually the conservatives fault post, following new scathing reports of corruption.

[DFO]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

The old, its actually the conservatives fault post, following new scathing reports of corruption.

Doesn’t make it any less true regardless of when it gets trotted out.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

The old, its actually the conservatives fault post, following new scathing reports of corruption.

It was in response to the disappointment of O’Toole not getting another opportunity and getting the boot after setting a path for a Conservative party more in-line with the average Canadian. Was that China’s fault also? Serious question.

[shotinthebacklund]

Serious question, O' Toole failed to lead his party to enough seats to win the election. Why keep him? not all that dissimilar to firing a coach for not making the playoffs. O'toole was a bland leader at best, took forever to have any discernible platform, and had nothing of personality to draw the needed voters to his side. Who knows, maybe he would have won if the new allegations of voter suppression prove to be true.


Edit: what path specifically was he charting? restriction on "assault style weapons (vague as hell and one we already had a well defined definition for in the firearms industry in canada)" ? a wishy washy climate plan? Pro choice (no different then the current party stance) ? and not balancing the budget for at least 10 years?

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

Serious question, O' Toole failed to lead his party to enough seats to win the election. Why keep him?

It seemed to work out ok for Harper

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

Serious question, O' Toole failed to lead his party to enough seats to win the election. Why keep him? not all that dissimilar to firing a coach for not making the playoffs. O'toole was a bland leader at best, took forever to have any discernible platform, and had nothing of personality to draw the needed voters to his side. Who knows, maybe he would have won if the new allegations of voter suppression prove to be true.


Edit: what path specifically was he charting? restriction on "assault style weapons (vague as hell and one we already had a well defined definition for in the firearms industry in canada)" ? a wishy washy climate plan? Pro choice (no different then the current party stance) ? and not balancing the budget for at least 10 years?

One that focused on optimism, workers, and families. Whether it would have worked or not, a lot of his platform was similar to things people liked about the Liberal platform, with a stronger focus on ensuring money went back to people who needed it and controlling Canada’s bloated monopolies in telecom and food and reducing foreign influence in the housing market.

It would be one thing if O’Toole was swapped for someone more likeable, or less hostile and combative, or someone more in-touch with the average Canadian. Instead they chose… PP… who is worse on literally every angle.

And yeah, maybe he would have won if it weren’t for Chinese interference. Are you saying he would have been a bad PM?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

Serious question, O' Toole failed to lead his party to enough seats to win the election. Why keep him? not all that dissimilar to firing a coach for not making the playoffs. O'toole was a bland leader at best, took forever to have any discernible platform, and had nothing of personality to draw the needed voters to his side. Who knows, maybe he would have won if the new allegations of voter suppression prove to be true.


Edit: what path specifically was he charting? restriction on "assault style weapons (vague as hell and one we already had a well defined definition for in the firearms industry in canada)" ? a wishy washy climate plan? Pro choice (no different then the current party stance) ? and not balancing the budget for at least 10 years?

Well, not particularly O'Toole specific, but leadership of a party should be more than just about winning a particular election. Eventually electoral success is necessary but there needs to be more attention around shaping policy, the direction of the party. I'd argue that the focus on winning was partly why he lost an election (because he pandered to the base as a strategy for winning).

[shotinthebacklund]

One that focused on optimism, workers, and families. Whether it would have worked or not, a lot of his platform was similar to things people liked about the Liberal platform, with a stronger focus on ensuring money went back to people who needed it and controlling Canada’s bloated monopolies in telecom and food and reducing foreign influence in the housing market.

It would be one thing if O’Toole was swapped for someone more likeable, or less hostile and combative, or someone more in-touch with the average Canadian. Instead they chose… PP… who is worse on literally every angle.

And yeah, maybe he would have won if it weren’t for Chinese interference. Are you saying he would have been a bad PM?

I know you have several issues with PP, but maybe your bias is also contributing to not see his platform for optimism, workers, and families. You don't like his messaging, or maybe his tact, but it appears to me those core values are his main message. He is constantly speaking about what he believes to be issues with the housing market, both foreign and domestic. I am sure, I have my bias's contribute to how I perceive the liberal government, and I will admit that. When, as in the past, the conservatives win the popular vote it kinda does mean that the majority of Canadians are OK with their political path.

[Red Slinger]

I, and several others I know, were prepared to vote for O'Toole until he buckled to the fringes of his party. I could be wrong but I believe that if he had campaigned in the middle and controlled the libertarian bozo faction he would be PM right now.

Canada is a centrist/left leaning country generally although we are also a pragmatic bunch. We want good governance without the US-style bumper sticker politics. The brand of government O'Toole ended up representing didn't fit what Canadians want. When are the Cons going to learn?

Yes, I believe the Conservatives scored an own-goal and now we all have to put up with Trudeau even longer.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

I, and several others I know, were prepared to vote for O'Toole until he buckled to the fringes of his party. I could be wrong but I believe that if he had campaigned in the middle and controlled the libertarian bozo faction he would be PM right now.

Canada is a centrist/left leaning country generally although we are also a pragmatic bunch. We want good governance without the US-style bumper sticker politics. The brand of government O'Toole ended up representing didn't fit what Canadians want. When are the Cons going to learn?

Yes, I believe the Conservatives scored an own-goal and now we all have to put up with Trudeau even longer.

He got knifed by the Bozo faction for not pandering enough.

The problem with the next federal election is I don’t believe anyone can vote for Trudeau do to his undermining of norms and specifically the JWR obstruction of Justice is disqualifying. There has to be a strong line

I’m glad my vote doesn’t matter federally this time.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by shotinthebacklund

I know you have several issues with PP, but maybe your bias is also contributing to not see his platform for optimism, workers, and families. You don't like his messaging, or maybe his tact, but it appears to me those core values are his main message. He is constantly speaking about what he believes to be issues with the housing market, both foreign and domestic. I am sure, I have my bias's contribute to how I perceive the liberal government, and I will admit that. When, as in the past, the conservatives win the popular vote it kinda does mean that the majority of Canadians are OK with their political path.

I think PP hands the election back to the Liberals, every time he says woke agenda he loses a vote in Ontario and Quebec. Last I checked a few months ago he was polling poorly in Ontario, Quebec, and with woman. If he runs on the same campaign points as O'Toole I think he is cooked but I wouldn't be surprised if he stays on though. The Liberals will get shuffled out at some point and the party wants some like PP in charge.

I think O'Toole was the closest to a red Tory we have had in a long time and got the boot because of bad campaign strategy and party politics.