[GT] US election - It's 2020, what could possibly go wrong?

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

https://twitter.com/user/status/1329728889296355328

This is how the Trump Presidency has operated since shortly after his inauguration. He was in legal jeopardy from day one and the entire thing has been about maneuvering out of trouble or having legal immunity until death.

[troutman]

A Ugandan story for contrast:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/18/afric...ntl/index.html

Ugandan presidential opposition candidate Bobi Wine has been arrested for the second time this month, sparking violent protests in the country.

The popular musician-turned-politician was arrested while campaigning in Eastern Uganda, according to Wine's staff -- just weeks after a prior arrest. "The price of freedom is high but we shall certainly overcome," a tweet from his official account read, announcing his detainment on Wednesday.

Ugandan police did not immediately respond to calls from CNN, but in a statement posted on its official website on Wednesday, the Inspector General pointed to tightened Covid-19 enforcement around campaign events.

"Despite repeated warnings issued to candidates, their agents and wider public about the negative impact and health risks of holding unauthorized rallies and processions, we continue to witness acts of defiance and total disregard of the EC [Electoral Commission] guidelines. Therefore, those who shall defy these Electoral Commission guidelines with their sinister plans aimed at disrupting the electoral process will definitely suffer consequences," the statement read.

While authorities have said the restrictions are necessary to curb the spread of Covid-19, opposition members say that they are an excuse to curb campaigning and intimidate opposition supporters before the upcoming January election.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

https://twitter.com/user/status/1329728892618166273

Vicious. And accurate.

Reader view

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1...296355328.html

[Flashpoint]

The likely plan Trump had to overturn the election

In Wayne County last week, the two Republicans on the county canvassing board initially withheld their votes, but ultimately agreed to certify. That makes it harder for Trump to carry out his plan here, since all the counties have now submitted certified totals, and Biden is up by roughly 150,000 votes.

But should the GOP state canvassers refuse to certify and thus deadlock the board, Michigan's Electoral College delegates would be unable to cast their votes as required on Dec. 14.

That would deny Biden Michigan's 16 Electoral College votes. If enough other states join Michigan to bring Biden's total below the 270 votes required for an Electoral College majority, it would toss the presidential election to the House of Representatives.

The House, of course, is controlled by Democrats. But that wouldn't matter in this case, because all 435 members won't get a vote.

Each state delegation will have one vote. Trump would need to win the votes of 26 state delegations to win reelection. Republicans hold a 26-22 advantage among state delegations in the incoming Congress. (Michigan's House members are split 7-7 between Republicans and Democrats, and Pennsylvania is also tied.)

That's the strategy. Here's why it won't work:

The Board of Canvassers has a constitutional duty to certify the election. This is not a matter of individual choice.

If the state board on Monday doesn't fulfill that duty, the Biden campaign and/or other interested parties will make a beeline to the state Court of Appeals in request of writ ordering the canvassers to certify the election.

(That happened in 2013 when the Wayne County Board of Canvassers refused to certify Mike Duggan's write-in votes for Detroit mayor.)

There's no conceivable scenario in which that order won't be granted by the court, given the clarity of the law and the fact that all of the counties have certified their results.

[Inglewood Jack]

this is a couple days old so may have been posted already, but what the balls Canada, hang your head in shame

https://www.thestar.com/politics/fed...as-unfair.html

The Angus Reid poll released on Wednesday found that 18 per cent of respondents disagreed that the U.S. election was fair and shouldn’t be contested.

And 17 per cent of respondents would have preferred a second Trump term.

On the Prairies, Trump’s support is highest with 36 per cent of Albertans, 32 per cent of people in Saskatchewan and 26 per cent of Manitobans saying another four years of Trump would have been preferable to incoming president Joe Biden, who is set to be sworn in come January.

Angus Reid broke down responses to its question on whether the U.S. election was “fair and should not be contested” by Canadian political parties. People who responded to the survey had pre-existing profiles which indicated who they voted for in the last federal election.

Among Conservative party voters 41 per cent said the election wasn’t fair and should be contested, while 95 per cent of Liberals and 92 per cent of NDP supporters said it was fair. For the Bloc Québécois, 81 per cent agreed that the election was fair.

In Alberta and Saskatchewan, where Conservative party support is strongest, 56 per cent of respondents agreed with the statement.

[calgaryred]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

this is a couple days old so may have been posted already, but what the balls Canada, hang your head in shame



https://www.thestar.com/politics/fed...as-unfair.html

Not surprised about Alberta and Saskatchewan one of the reasons why I left.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[MBates]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

In some cases you seem to like arguing for the sake of it, which, fine, but come on. We both know there is a world of difference between the situation in the United States and the situation here. We are not teetering on some precipice that could swiftly lead to our judicial situation becoming like it is down there. And yes, sure, the observation of norms has a lot to do with that, but there is a significant difference in the politicization of the judiciary between the two countries, and linking to a globe article isn't going to convince anyone otherwise. This is a culture that has been festering down there for decades.

As for the importance of the PC, we're literally talking about a situation where the courts are being used for an attempted coup. The PC doesn't have that type of power. And we can argue all day about their role in interpreting the Charter, and whether or not appellate courts would ever allow a consequential, politically motivated ruling with broad implications to stand simply because of facts found at first instance, but it would be pointlessly hypothetical and, as you said, a total derail.

Lessons learned are well and good, but the suggestion that Canada is at risk of becoming like the USA in this regard (or even at greater risk due to our parliamentary system) is hyperbolic and alarmist to the point of silliness.

Not to be argumentative (sarcasm intended) but it is a discussion board...personally I come here for, well, discussion and indeed argument on important societal topics.

I am not sure what you found “hyperbolic and alarmist” in my post. I know how to use hyperbole and alarm but was not doing it there.

The derail I risked (and still do I guess) was indeed talking about the politicization of the appointment process in Canada and the incorrect statement that the Alberta Provincial Court does not make important decisions that matter to people and indeed to our actual constitutional law.

I will readily concede all arguments I never made (that Canada is teetering on a precipice, for example). I can also acknowledge without difficulty our system is not currently anywhere near as infected by politics as the US.

But an ad hominem attack on a “Globe article” strangely disputed nothing of the facts...the facts being a liberal federally appointed judge and her liberal MP husband were very recently caught, and the sitting judge sanctioned, for inappropriately influencing who got appointed to the bench. All things that happened in present day Canada. Do you think that inappropriate influence of appointments was for something other than political purposes?

In the end my on-topic point is that the things you say make us miles apart (or should I say kilometers) from the US are not as protected as you suggest they are from an elected official willing to attack our institutions and norms.

The reality is we do not have senate confirmations and the self imposed voluntary restrictions on who cabinet appoints to the bench can simply be disregarded.

Heck, we even have the situation of a judge being actually appointed to the SCC in spite of the fact the Constitution barred his appointment and him having to be ordered by the sitting SCC that he couldn’t join them. Can the US even match us on such a debacle?

And when everyone was done asking, who is Marc Nadon and how did he even make it to a list of possible SCC appointments in the first place? They wondered aloud whether it could possibly have had anything to do with his dissent in a case which some may remember became a tiny bit political in Canada:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/nationa...d91fa0e47/amp/

He was on “nobody’s short list,” McGill University law professor Robert Leckey was quoted as saying earlier this year. Mr. Leckey added that he was not even sure he was “on anybody’s long list.”

What likely distinguished Mr. Nadon, however, was his most prominent ruling: A 2009 dissent against the court order repatriating Canadian child terrorist Omar Khadr from the U.S.-run Guantanamo Bay prison.

That ruling “was likely one of the primary reasons the government decided to roll the dice on his appointment,” Bruce Ryder, an associate professor at the Osgoode Hall Law School, wrote in an email to the National Post.
He added “the strong deference he showed to decisions taken by the Canadian government distinguished him in the field and would have commended him strongly to the Conservative members of the selection panel, the justice minister and the prime minister.”

In the end, an international judicial watch organization weighed in on whether our Prime Minister and his Justice Minister or the Chief Justice of Canada were responsible for inappropriate conduct regarding appointments to our highest court:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...overnment.html

Heckman also welcomed the ICJ’s observation that some of the controversy might have been avoided if Canada had an independent body to select judicial candidates and clear procedures for consultation between the executive and the judiciary.

But enough alarm and hyperbole, back to criticism of places where the appointment of judges to courts with actual power for political purposes is an actual thing that could ever even happen...

[FurnaceFace]

I suspect the numbers are mostly tied to O&G. Just look at Keystone, it was one of, if not the first time, tiny hands grabbed a crayon and scribbled his name on an executive order to get it started while Biden wants to stop it. Just on the surface of that I can see a lot of people wanting him as they think he’s better for the oil industry. They are simply ignoring all the other baggage associated with Agent Orange as they care most about jobs. It’s a bit of a Maslow hierarchy of needs thing.

I’m sure there are people in Chilliwack who are Trump supporters too.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

I suspect the numbers are mostly tied to O&G. Just look at Keystone, it was one of, if not the first time, tiny hands grabbed a crayon and scribbled his name on an executive order to get it started while Biden wants to stop it. Just on the surface of that I can see a lot of people wanting him as they think he’s better for the oil industry. They are simply ignoring all the other baggage associated with Agent Orange as they care most about jobs. It’s a bit of a Maslow hierarchy of needs thing.

I’m sure there are people in Chilliwack who are Trump supporters too.

Probably a lot in Cape Breton too.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by MBates

Not to be argumentative (sarcasm intended) but it is a discussion board...personally I come here for, well, discussion and indeed argument on important societal topics.

Alright, well, I'm not particularly interested in playing that game with you in this instance.

I am not sure what you found “hyperbolic and alarmist” in my post. I know how to use hyperbole and alarm but was not doing it there. The derail I risked (and still do I guess) was indeed talking about the politicization of the appointment process in Canada and the incorrect statement that the Alberta Provincial Court does not make important decisions that matter to people and indeed to our actual constitutional law.

You interjected into a discussion I was having with another poster, who was suggesting that it would be fairly simple for the same thing to happen here and pointed out that Kenney could do something like this by appointing judges for political reasons. I responded that that wouldn't have the desired effect, because he could only impact the makeup of the provincial court. We'll have to agree to disagree about the influence of the provincial court on the law that's relevant to this discussion.

But an ad hominem attack on a “Globe article” strangely disputed nothing of the facts...

I feel like I'm being accosted by an angry chihuahua while I try to eat lunch... Ad hominem? What the heck are you talking about? Whose hominem do you think I'm ad here?

You know what, nevermind. It doesn't matter. The Marc Nadon example is a fair point. Well done. Have yourself a nice day.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by FurnaceFace

I suspect the numbers are mostly tied to O&G. Just look at Keystone, it was one of, if not the first time, tiny hands grabbed a crayon and scribbled his name on an executive order to get it started while Biden wants to stop it. Just on the surface of that I can see a lot of people wanting him as they think he’s better for the oil industry. They are simply ignoring all the other baggage associated with Agent Orange as they care most about jobs. It’s a bit of a Maslow hierarchy of needs thing.

I’m sure there are people in Chilliwack who are Trump supporters too.

I don't really understand why people do this. There are a number of dip####, far-right loons in Alberta, probably more so than in most of the other provinces (at least as a percentage). It's still a minority of the province, and it doesn't mean all Albertans believe this nonsense, but it exists there. Let's not try to make excuses.

Every single province in Canada has their own fringe that makes the rest of the province embarrassed. BC has their hippy, eco-loons. Quebec has the separatism and xenophobia wing (and I don't even know that I'd classify that as "fringe" there). Ontario has their weird, redneck bush loons (BC has these, too). The Atlantic provinces have had some serious racism issues over the years, etc., etc.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

this is a couple days old so may have been posted already, but what the balls Canada, hang your head in shame

https://www.thestar.com/politics/fed...as-unfair.html

My dad just posted something about Rudy's presser and evil socialists stealing the election... I try not to discuss politics too much at family get togethers anymore.

The "I Love Chestermere" Facebook group had to shut down all discussion about the pandemic entirely because Chestermere passed a bylaw mandating masks a few days ago people were going crazy with "my freedom" type posts and anti-Biden memes and stuff.

It's a little nutty.

[Leeman4Gilmour]

Not that it matters as most of the major news sites had already given Biden Georgia, but both Fox and Bloomberg have officially given Biden Georgia and a total of 306 electoral votes now. Not sure exactly when, but they hadn't up until yesterday afternoon.

[getbak]

Georgia officially certified their results this morning, so that might be why.

[devo22]

Melting Rudy's son has been tested positive for Covid. He was at the presser yesterday I think, and remember, that room looked like this:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1329469706311491591

[Fuzz]

So Rudy's son tested positive, and Rudy looks like he had a fever of 150. I noticed they were standing extremely close together at that presser. Wonder how many of them got infected?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

The likely plan Trump had to overturn the election

The video I posted earlier, only available in the United States for some reason, outlined this. Thanks for the article format that is available outside of our ever increasingly media controlled borders.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by MBates

I am not sure what you found “hyperbolic and alarmist” in my post.

The fact that you caved in his head on matters where he's supposed to have some sort of "expertise" is what drew the response. Some times referred to the "Judge, he's destroying my case and I don't have the mental acuity to counter it" objection.

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I feel like I'm being accosted by an angry chihuahua while I try to eat lunch...

Is that even possible after MBates took your lunch AND your lunch money from you?

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by rubecube

I don't really understand why people do this. There are a number of dip####, far-right loons in Alberta, probably more so than in most of the other provinces (at least as a percentage). It's still a minority of the province, and it doesn't mean all Albertans believe this nonsense, but it exists there. Let's not try to make excuses.

Every single province in Canada has their own fringe that makes the rest of the province embarrassed. BC has their hippy, eco-loons. Quebec has the separatism and xenophobia wing (and I don't even know that I'd classify that as "fringe" there). Ontario has their weird, redneck bush loons (BC has these, too). The Atlantic provinces have had some serious racism issues over the years, etc., etc.

Sometimes surveys like this are done simply to stir up regional divide in Canada. It sells papers, and it gets clicks. It's also fairly likely that it's a survey done primarily in urban centres for these provinces. If there were a lot of Northern BC respondents, it would show a different picture. That area makes Alberta look like a San Francisco commune.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Meh, that just sets precedents for future election results to be challenged in this way. Maybe one of those times someone actually finds a way to pull it off. Republican or Democrat, shouldn't matter. Be cordial about your win/loss and transition your term as is meant to be. Maybe this is the time for those around him with a wee bit of critical thinking skills remaining to actually let this transition happen, if only for their own career's sake.


Still plenty of time for him to F stuff up though. Hopefully he'll just be too sad to really do anything and just stay home and pout.

Hopefully you are right. I just have little faith that giving up on legal challenges means he will give up. Powell was urging militias to rise up and re-take the country. I am worried that the end of legal challenges will move him into a more dangerous phase of challenging the results or just creating a bigger mess for Biden to clean up.