Ongoing General Automotive Thread 2.0

[Weitz]

Negotiating on the bill of sale is silly.

Negotiate out the door price with addons. Let them structure the bill however they want.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

You'll have to ask what the difference is re the block heater. I have no idea what makes it premium. Maybe the cord is longer?
Freight and PDI are normal.
What accessories are you getting?

I can’t even remember the last time I plugged a car into a block heater.

For a premium block heater, the only thing I can imagine is if it had some capability to warm the cabin interior at the same time. That might be some tech or comfort package though for the higher end models.

[D as in David]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

You... wait... you thought it was a tax... on air?

Spoiler!

I mean I was initially going to respond incredulously that you might have thought it was that, but changed my post before submitting because I thought "no, there's no friggin' way Fuzz actually thinks it is an 'air' tax".

Welp.

The dealer didn't charge for wind, rain or snow so it seems like a deal they only charged for air.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by WideReceiver

These are my charges I’m unsure about:
-Premium block heater, $575.94 — it’s a f’ng Toyota; I’ve owned many and rarely ever plug in; why do I need a PREMIUM block heater? I found one at another dealer for $270. I imagine the higher price accounts for installation but do I need PREMIUM? Whatever that is.
-Accessories $6,254. I’d like to know what these are.
-Dealer fees $1,733. Normal?
-Freight and PDI $1,930. Okay, I guess.

Any advice on the above is appreciated before I call my sales lady.

Thanks, everyone.

A few pointers I can make. Wither or not it's a Toyota, most cars in Canada usually have some sort of block heater installed. It's a personal choice and will assist with resale value. Do you need a premium, dealer installed one? I don't know and I am sure a local shop, tire shop, Canadian tire can get a better price on it later. If you don't want one and park indoors, don't pay for one. Block heaters do help in -20+ weather 100%.

Accessories: Figure out what you have asked for and what the car comes with. Go online and see what is standard equipment. Are you leasing the car or keeping it long term? Accessories like rust protection, undercoating, scotch guard protection for interior, VIN etching into windows can be done elsewhere for cheaper if so desired. Getting rust protection on a 3 year lease is beyond stupid. Be careful with these charges as the dealer markup is huge.

Get actual screen shots of finance rates from dealer, if the dealer is bumping the rate on you for a better commission, you need to know.

Freight and PDI: Pretty standard stuff and the costs have gone up. Brutal but not much you can do.

Dealer fee: These usually includes things like documents, registration and other dealer associated costs. Work them hard on this and if they don't budge, ask for accessories to be included like a block heater, window tinting. Most dealerships will charge this and it's tough to remove but work hard on getting something in return.

Go online and see what the MSRP is of your car and trim level and compare it to your sales contract. If the car is $39 500 online and the dealer says its $40 500, your paying an extra grand without knowing.

Good luck

[curves2000]

Anybody have any knowledge on where I can get a 1 liter bottle of engine coolant?? I have tried a few auto shops/dealerships and everybody sells 4 liter jugs. I want to top up a low level and don't want another jug of fluid kicking around for 5+ years.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Anybody have any knowledge on where I can get a 1 liter bottle of engine coolant?? I have tried a few auto shops/dealerships and everybody sells 4 liter jugs. I want to top up a low level and don't want another jug of fluid kicking around for 5+ years.

NSFW!

[chummer]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Anybody have any knowledge on where I can get a 1 liter bottle of engine coolant?? I have tried a few auto shops/dealerships and everybody sells 4 liter jugs. I want to top up a low level and don't want another jug of fluid kicking around for 5+ years.

Just put it in the garage, always good to have that kind of stuff when you need it.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Anybody have any knowledge on where I can get a 1 liter bottle of engine coolant?? I have tried a few auto shops/dealerships and everybody sells 4 liter jugs. I want to top up a low level and don't want another jug of fluid kicking around for 5+ years.

Why wouldn’t you ask them to top it up for you? They probably have a giant vat of it.

[speede5]

Just a note on block heaters. They aren't so simple anymore. A lot of them are type specific and bolt to the block, rather than in one of the freeze plug holes, and a lot of them are temp sensitive, they don't even come on until the temp is below a certain -. Your ECM compensates for air temp so until you hit -15 or so a block heater is pointless. I still wouldn't pay $750 for one but you want the right one for your vehicle rather than an all purpose unit.

Also they probably already installed it during the PDI, and they don't want to remove it so you probably can get that number down some.

Our local dodge dealer installs mud flaps and running boards on all trucks during PDI, then adds 2K to the price. Definitely some wiggle room there.

[Erick Estrada]

Holy ####! $60k out the door for a RAV4. We are truly living in crazy times.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by Weitz

Negotiating on the bill of sale is silly.

Negotiate out the door price with addons. Let them structure the bill however they want.

This is pretty much the strategy I always use...only negotiate around the Out the Door price + GST. They can structure it with whatever BS fees or taxes makes them happy, as long as we agree on the end price.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Holy ####! $60k out the door for a RAV4. We are truly living in crazy times.

I inherited a 2019 Rav4 with 20,000 kms on it in 2023. Kept it for about two weeks before selling it.

I was shocked at how crappy it seemed, so I am a million percent perplexed at the love these things get. Pitiful NVH control (noise, vibration, harshness), cheap feeling, boring, unfun, blah, etc.

What a bland appliance. If it was $35k, sure, but at the price people are paying they are absolutely out of their minds. They are so ####ing lame.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

No, I didn't think it was a tax on air. Come on. I'm saying the term "air tax" is silly.

THE CROW OF JUDGEMENT IS FINAL.

Caps for dramatic effect.

Originally Posted by chummer

Just put it in the garage, always good to have that kind of stuff when you need it.

As someone who parks in a resident parking garage, this has been especially useful. Some asshat has been "borrowing" people's windshield washer fluid, and stole an entire bottle of the purple winter washer fluid I had left out for my girlfriend. I later found the bottle in the corner of the garage, empty. My RR uses purple coolant... so now I'm keeping the coolant in that washer fluid bottle. FAFO.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I inherited a 2019 Rav4 with 20,000 kms on it in 2023. Kept it for about two weeks before selling it.

I was shocked at how crappy it seemed, so I am a million percent perplexed at the love these things get. Pitiful NVH control (noise, vibration, harshness), cheap feeling, boring, unfun, blah, etc.

What a bland appliance. If it was $35k, sure, but at the price people are paying they are absolutely out of their minds. They are so ####ing lame.

Apparently they improved the NVH issues a lot recently. I took an Uber a few weeks ago and the guy had a 2021 hybrid. That was his only complaint. He had over 435k km on it. He said he did the brakes for the first time at 415k. I was actually amazed that it didn't have any rattles or anything, it was just road noise.

[Wormius]

In EV mode it is pretty quiet, except the stupid pedestrian warning drone. Also peppy in sport mode. I mean, it’s comparable to the Supra. If I get over 400k on it, my gas savings will make up for the premium on price.

I dunno about the plain Jane 2019 one though. Probably pretty utilitarian.

[DoubleF]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I inherited a 2019 Rav4 with 20,000 kms on it in 2023. Kept it for about two weeks before selling it.

I was shocked at how crappy it seemed, so I am a million percent perplexed at the love these things get. Pitiful NVH control (noise, vibration, harshness), cheap feeling, boring, unfun, blah, etc.

What a bland appliance. If it was $35k, sure, but at the price people are paying they are absolutely out of their minds. They are so ####ing lame.

I wonder if their original allure was similar to the allure of Jeeps. I had one as a courtesy car and I agree I didn't like it. It rattled like crazy and it the feedback from the vehicle when driving felt spongy.

The fricken sun shade kept flopping down too. Tension on the hinge was loose or something. It's the only damn vehicle I've ever been in that I've seen a sun shade loosen to the point it flapped around like a leaf in wind.

It's in the same vein as a Jeep Compass I got for a courtesy car. I kept turning around wondering if a window was slightly open.

[Acey]

Driver of the truck who caused my rollover on Deerfoot has been charged. There's dashcam video of the crash but we can't get the link to work as of now and I'm not sure I want to watch it anyway. I start physio today for my neck and shoulder injuries. Will eventually be picking up another S5 from Royal Oak that's currently away for minor hail repair.

[burn_this_city]

What did they charge him with? Careless driving?

[Acey]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

What did they charge him with? Careless driving?

Following too closely, another charge is pending. My account of who hit who was not correct as apparently I was hit from the side by the Ford Escape that was pushed into me by the truck, and that's what sent me airborne. I no longer have any recollection of the crash.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I inherited a 2019 Rav4 with 20,000 kms on it in 2023. Kept it for about two weeks before selling it.

I was shocked at how crappy it seemed, so I am a million percent perplexed at the love these things get. Pitiful NVH control (noise, vibration, harshness), cheap feeling, boring, unfun, blah, etc.

What a bland appliance. If it was $35k, sure, but at the price people are paying they are absolutely out of their minds. They are so ####ing lame.

Yep I drove my father in law's 2021 RAV4 for two months and was totally underwhelmed. Dimestore interior and one of the least fefined 4-cylinder engines I can remember going back to the 90's. The fact this vehicle is an annual top 5 seller just goes to show how little people actually care about driving dynamics and quality.