Breaking: Biden will not seek re-election

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by opendoor

My 85 year old grandpa was mad when they took his license away after he had a stroke, but that doesn't mean it wasn't the right move.

Biden is clearly not fit to run a campaign or to be President for 4.5 more years. The mistake Democrats made was thinking they could hide this from voters, which meant they started putting pressure on him to not run again 1-2 years too late. They could have made a much smoother transition if Biden stuck to his "transitional candidate" thing that he was telling everyone before the 2020 election.

First of all, I don't think it's clear that he couldn't do the job for another term. It is, however, clear that he could not win this election. His oratorical abilities have rapidly declined, to the point where it was catastrophically harming his campaign. Whether the accusations of him having dementia are true or not, is a separate question.

Bernie Sanders is about to turn 83. I don't think there's much (any?) doubt that he could handle a presidential term if he were elected this November. So this is not strictly an age thing. This is an optics and perception problem. One that Biden was trapped in and had no way of getting out of. Hence his only options were to pass the torch, or send his party careening toward inevitable defeat this November.

So no, I don't buy into this notion that there was some kind of shadowy conspiracy to hide Biden's mental state. The thinking probably was that incumbency, along with his legislative accomplishments, and Trump being a flawed candidate, would be enough to get Biden a 2nd term comfortably. They probably figured that the path of least resistance was to not rock the boat, go along to get along, and as long as Biden didn't do terribly at the debates, he would cruise to re-election. This was probably the thinking up until the debate disaster, but by then he already had the delegates and only he could make the decision to step aside.

[GGG]

It’s insane to suggest that Bernie would be suitable to handle a presidential term. It’s ridiculous. Age alone is disqualifying.

[Mathgod]

Oh don't get me wrong, I think there should be age limits on the presidency, due to the risks age can present. No one 70 or older should be allowed to run.

But there aren't such limits. Trump was allowed to run, as was Biden. It's presumptive to look at Biden's speaking struggles and make rash conclusions about his ability to handle day-to-day presidential duties.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

First of all, I don't think it's clear that he couldn't do the job for another term. It is, however, clear that he could not win this election. His oratorical abilities have rapidly declined, to the point where it was catastrophically harming his campaign. Whether the accusations of him having dementia are true or not, is a separate question.

Bernie Sanders is about to turn 83. I don't think there's much (any?) doubt that he could handle a presidential term if he were elected this November. So this is not strictly an age thing. This is an optics and perception problem. One that Biden was trapped in and had no way of getting out of. Hence his only options were to pass the torch, or send his party careening toward inevitable defeat this November.

So no, I don't buy into this notion that there was some kind of shadowy conspiracy to hide Biden's mental state. The thinking probably was that incumbency, along with his legislative accomplishments, and Trump being a flawed candidate, would be enough to get Biden a 2nd term comfortably. They probably figured that the path of least resistance was to not rock the boat, go along to get along, and as long as Biden didn't do terribly at the debates, he would cruise to re-election. This was probably the thinking up until the debate disaster, but by then he already had the delegates and only he could make the decision to step aside.

No. Questions have been asked for the past two years about his cognitive abilities and I know comments were made here about how he walks and talks. This was so obvious and the DNC and people around the president tried to hide it. People here (and elsewhere) thought it was ridiculous to question this and a lot of people went along with that. Only when it couldn’t be denied and was in the light for people to see, did the party finally relent. And even then, a few people in the party stuck their neck out while a more significant majority were silent.

[Mathgod]

"How he walks and talks" is not an indicator of whether he can do the job of president.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

First of all, I don't think it's clear that he couldn't do the job for another term. It is, however, clear that he could not win this election. His oratorical abilities have rapidly declined, to the point where it was catastrophically harming his campaign. Whether the accusations of him having dementia are true or not, is a separate question.

Bernie Sanders is about to turn 83. I don't think there's much (any?) doubt that he could handle a presidential term if he were elected this November. So this is not strictly an age thing. This is an optics and perception problem. One that Biden was trapped in and had no way of getting out of. Hence his only options were to pass the torch, or send his party careening toward inevitable defeat this November.

So no, I don't buy into this notion that there was some kind of shadowy conspiracy to hide Biden's mental state. The thinking probably was that incumbency, along with his legislative accomplishments, and Trump being a flawed candidate, would be enough to get Biden a 2nd term comfortably. They probably figured that the path of least resistance was to not rock the boat, go along to get along, and as long as Biden didn't do terribly at the debates, he would cruise to re-election. This was probably the thinking up until the debate disaster, but by then he already had the delegates and only he could make the decision to step aside.

I think Biden is still a lot more competent than most seem to think right now, but I think this is nuts. I think he is very barely competent enough to remain in office, though really its not ideal.

As for how we got here, I think it was mostly a frog in the pot situation for those closest to him, coupled with the completely natural inclination for each of them to maintain employment and influence. And even if any of them had concerns...it's always easier to do nothing than anything.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

"How he walks and talks" is not an indicator of whether he can do the job of president.

In a crisis, don't you think it's important that people in the situation room can trust the words coming out of Biden's mouth? It's not a great time to need to clarify if he means Putin or Zelensky or Trump or Harris or whoever.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Oh don't get me wrong, I think there should be age limits on the presidency, due to the risks age can present. No one 70 or older should be allowed to run.

But there aren't such limits. Trump was allowed to run, as was Biden. It's presumptive to look at Biden's speaking struggles and make rash conclusions about his ability to handle day-to-day presidential duties.

I don’t think it is presumptuous to think his ability to perform his duties is impaired relative to 4 years ago. It’s clear his ability to process large quantities of information rapidly and form a response is impaired.

Fundamentally that is a required skill of the president. Can he serve to the end of his term? Probably, he built infrastructure to compensate for this.

[curves2000]

My concern was how far top Democrats, the party, Whitehouse press staff and internal members of the inner circle went to hide these facts. This is suppose to be the party and the President of the GOOD Guy in a lot of peoples eyes, not the other guy like Trump.

Even when everything was out in the open for everybody to see, the level of lying and nonsense that the general public was being fed is right up there with Russian Kremlin propaganda. That isn't a stretch. Confirmation that world renowned medical professionals have made more than half a dozen trips to the Whitehouse, a full cabinet meeting hasn't been held in nearly 10 months. Constant reports about Biden's vitality, vigor and mental awareness being top notch. Can you imagine a high level CEO confusing heated and hated rivals and the aftermath? "Coca-cola reports earnings and highlights the worlds favorite beverage is Pepsi!"

There is nothing wrong with a personal aging out and I wish Biden well. As someone who leans in the opposite political direction he was a fantastic VP and President and I am happy he won in 2020. The Whitehouse slamming everybody who questioned his mentality capacity was wrong. The Whitehouse pretending that American top Dr's visiting the Whitehouse for the Whitehouse dishwasher etc and not the President is the definition of fake news and they knew it and still put out the lies.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by curves2000

My concern was how far top Democrats, the party, Whitehouse press staff and internal members of the inner circle went to hide these facts. This is suppose to be the party and the President of the GOOD Guy in a lot of peoples eyes, not the other guy like Trump.

Even when everything was out in the open for everybody to see, the level of lying and nonsense that the general public was being fed is right up there with Russian Kremlin propaganda. That isn't a stretch. Confirmation that world renowned medical professionals have made more than half a dozen trips to the Whitehouse, a full cabinet meeting hasn't been held in nearly 10 months. Constant reports about Biden's vitality, vigor and mental awareness being top notch. Can you imagine a high level CEO confusing heated and hated rivals and the aftermath? "Coca-cola reports earnings and highlights the worlds favorite beverage is Pepsi!"

There is nothing wrong with a personal aging out and I wish Biden well. As someone who leans in the opposite political direction he was a fantastic VP and President and I am happy he won in 2020. The Whitehouse slamming everybody who questioned his mentality capacity was wrong. The Whitehouse pretending that American top Dr's visiting the Whitehouse for the Whitehouse dishwasher etc and not the President is the definition of fake news and they knew it and still put out the lies.

lol you can't be serious...Trumps own VP called him Hitler but now thinks he is great or something? because? political gain perhaps?

THERE IS NO DEBATE

That is a democrat fib compared to what Trump and Trumpers do on a daily basis.

If you want to count lies we can. Its funny how the right is suddenly concerned about lies so they can protect the serial liar, sex abuser, felon, pedo, ect. lol

Trump is scared ####less...trying to get out of debates, trying to take away funding lol
"its not fair!"

Attacking Harris (which is all Trump has in his playbook) is just gonna backfire.

[afc wimbledon]

My guess is Biden had two 'problems' that led to him being left in as long as he was, first he has had to overcome a stutter which has meant he has always swapped words and made mistakes in his speech, my guess is he concentrates so hard on keeping the rhythm of his speech going, and he is brilliant at that, that he sometimes loses track of what he is saying, but because of this his own people just discounted the verbal slip ups as normal Joe.

The other part of it is his Presidency has been utterly brilliant, I have no doubt historians will look back at Biden as one of the most successful POTUS's ever bearing in mind the cards he's been dealt, a divided fractious country, a GOP controlled (and I use that term loosely) house, a right wing SC, the invasion of Ukraine and he has still managed to steer the economy back to world dominance, repatriated vast amounts of industry and pass more legislation than anyone since Reagan.

I suspect most in the party, like myself, where wondering when the hell the average voter was going to recognize they had just lived through the worst financial crisis the world had seen since 1974 and barely been touched by it, and perhaps that is the problem, most Americans don't realize that the world economy has fallen apart because it just hasn't touched them, but if there was any justice, or at least if previous elections were a model Biden should be unassailable, I think it's just taken the Party a while to realize that the old rules don't apply, and that in the case of Trump reality doesn't apply, he just lies to his acolytes and we live in a world were voters seem more comfortable with simple lies than the truth.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by SutterBrother

The US population has never had a voice in this decision. She was selected by Biden, and now has been selected by the Democratic party through their endorsements.

I'm sure a huge part of that decision was her access to the Biden campaign war chest - nobody else would be able to use it. Logically this decision makes sense, as it gives her the best shot at defeating the GOP.

That said - this election will indeed be the first time the American people will actually have a choice in voting for her. Given that the election is 100 days away, that also makes sense. Spending as little as a week in a primary situation would be sacrificing the much more important time remaining to campaign against the GOP.

Thankfully for her, it seems like a pretty easy path to the White House at this point. You can make the argument she wouldn't have survived a Democratic Primary process (like 2020), so wouldn't have been the nominee, and therefore the President.

But here she's just running against a mental defective, so has a great shot at winning. And given the fundraising so far (over 100 million?) it's not like the populace is in rebellion.

The US population got a Trump presidency and a supreme court overthrow because Trump got 3M less votes

[opendoor]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

First of all, I don't think it's clear that he couldn't do the job for another term. It is, however, clear that he could not win this election. His oratorical abilities have rapidly declined, to the point where it was catastrophically harming his campaign. Whether the accusations of him having dementia are true or not, is a separate question.

I think it's abundantly clear he couldn't serve another term. Unlike others, I wouldn't assume he has dementia or anything. I just think he's a pretty normal 82 year old who is suffering from cognitive decline and who doesn't have the energy required to do the job.

Having 2 candidates so old has sort of normalized guys in their late 70s and 80s running for President, but historically it's insane. Put Biden's age in the context of other Presidents. If JFK was Biden's age, he would have been running against George W Bush in 2000; Teddy Roosevelt would have been President in WWII; Bill Clinton and George W Bush would be gearing up for 2028 campaigns, and Obama would be looking ahead to 2044; and LBJ and Nixon would have been running for President in the 1990s.

Bernie Sanders is about to turn 83. I don't think there's much (any?) doubt that he could handle a presidential term if he were elected this November. So this is not strictly an age thing. This is an optics and perception problem. One that Biden was trapped in and had no way of getting out of. Hence his only options were to pass the torch, or send his party careening toward inevitable defeat this November.

So no, I don't buy into this notion that there was some kind of shadowy conspiracy to hide Biden's mental state. The thinking probably was that incumbency, along with his legislative accomplishments, and Trump being a flawed candidate, would be enough to get Biden a 2nd term comfortably. They probably figured that the path of least resistance was to not rock the boat, go along to get along, and as long as Biden didn't do terribly at the debates, he would cruise to re-election. This was probably the thinking up until the debate disaster, but by then he already had the delegates and only he could make the decision to step aside.

Biden's approval rating and polling around his age made it abundantly clear to me over the last 1-2 years that he was in serious trouble, and I'm hardly a political expert.

I do agree that the Democrats' strategy was to basically avoid rocking the boat, but that's tantamount to just plugging their ears and hoping for the best, which was clearly a poor strategy regardless of what the debate looked like. Particularly if your message is that democracy itself is on the ballot this election.

And I disagree that they weren't trying to hide his cognitive missteps. Of course they were; any responsible party would try to do that. The issue is, voters already had issues with his age and abilities, so trying to paper over that was never going to work unless Trump just imploded and handed them the election. It was a poor strategy and it still is. They're just lucky that the debate was so early in the cycle, or else it would have been a sure loss.

[curves2000]

Originally Posted by dino7c

lol you can't be serious...Trumps own VP called him Hitler but now thinks he is great or something? because? political gain perhaps?

THERE IS NO DEBATE

That is a democrat fib compared to what Trump and Trumpers do on a daily basis.

If you want to count lies we can. Its funny how the right is suddenly concerned about lies so they can protect the serial liar, sex abuser, felon, pedo, ect. lol

Trump is scared ####less...trying to get out of debates, trying to take away funding lol
"its not fair!"

Attacking Harris (which is all Trump has in his playbook) is just gonna backfire.

Nobody is saying that Trump doesn't lie, we all know that. Lies 30 hours a day, 400 days a year. This isn't a whataboutism. I expected more in this scenario from the Biden Whitehouse.

If you go and see a few of the press conferences after the debate, the mainstream, normal media was freaking out. This wasn't some right wing conspiracy. The Whitehouse went from Biden's vitality and mental acuity to explaining to the media that effectively going forward, the Presidents campaign and work related events were over at 8 pm for him to rest and that more time during the day for naps would be provided.

The free press was trying to get basic answers to his medical information and the press secretary couldn't keep a basic answer straight.

"President hasn't seen a Dr since January at his physical. He's fine"
"The President has an excellent medical team with him at all times at his disposal"
"He saw a Dr prior to the debate"
"He didn't actually see a Dr before the debate, he talked to one on the phone"


It just got out of hand for this particular issue to the point where the gig was up. Game was over, fat lady sung. They couldn't sell it anymore cause nobody was buying.

Trump lies like no other but Biden telling us he's doing this on his own accord is about as honest as Trump. His Presidency was effectively taken away

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by opendoor

I think it's abundantly clear he couldn't serve another term. Unlike others, I wouldn't assume he has dementia or anything. I just think he's a pretty normal 82 year old who is suffering from cognitive decline and who doesn't have the energy required to do the job.

I think people keep glossing over the difference between having what it takes to serve as president, and having what it takes to win an election. They are two different things.

He can't win an election at this point. We all agree on that.

But as president, the most important things required of you are:

1) Enact good policies
2) Don't enact bad policies
3) Put good judges on the courts
4) Don't put bad judges on the courts

Most of the rest of the stuff is superficial. Not unimportant, but far, far less important than the 4 things listed. An inanimate object would still deliver on 2 of the 4 things. Trump gets a score of 0/4 for his first presidency, and would go into the negatives if given a 2nd term.

As for "what about handling a crisis". What is preventing Biden from asking his top officials what the best advice they have is based on the information they have, thinking about it, and either taking their advice or giving a different order? I think he's very much capable of doing that.

You say "cognitive decline" but that's a rather vague term. The decline he's suffered is in regards to his speaking ability. A huge problem in terms of campaigning, but in any one-on-one conversation it's not hard to understand every word he's saying as long as you pay attention. And when he mixes up a Putin with a Zelenskyy, it's very obvious what he meant to say.

I'm in my 30s and I mix up names all the time. Doesn't mean I'm mentally impaired.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by opendoor

I think it's abundantly clear he couldn't serve another term. Unlike others, I wouldn't assume he has dementia or anything. I just think he's a pretty normal 82 year old who is suffering from cognitive decline and who doesn't have the energy required to do the job.

Having 2 candidates so old has sort of normalized guys in their late 70s and 80s running for President, but historically it's insane. Put Biden's age in the context of other Presidents. If JFK was Biden's age, he would have been running against George W Bush in 2000; Teddy Roosevelt would have been President in WWII; Bill Clinton and George W Bush would be gearing up for 2028 campaigns, and Obama would be looking ahead to 2044; and LBJ and Nixon would have been running for President in the 1990s.

Biden's approval rating and polling around his age made it abundantly clear to me over the last 1-2 years that he was in serious trouble, and I'm hardly a political expert.

I do agree that the Democrats' strategy was to basically avoid rocking the boat, but that's tantamount to just plugging their ears and hoping for the best, which was clearly a poor strategy regardless of what the debate looked like. Particularly if your message is that democracy itself is on the ballot this election.

And I disagree that they weren't trying to hide his cognitive missteps. Of course they were; any responsible party would try to do that. The issue is, voters already had issues with his age and abilities, so trying to paper over that was never going to work unless Trump just imploded and handed them the election. It was a poor strategy and it still is. They're just lucky that the debate was so early in the cycle, or else it would have been a sure loss.

Conspiracy hat question. Was the debate scheduled this early by Bidens people intentionally to preserve this option if it went badly.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by GGG

Conspiracy hat question. Was the debate scheduled this early by Bidens people intentionally to preserve this option if it went badly.

One day we will step back and evaluate the sequence of events through a lens of logic

Sneak peek : well played, imo

[Itse]

While I agree that the Dems should have pushed Biden to not run much earlier to allow for a more normal candidate election process, the reasons why they don't do rahat are easy to see.

1. When you see someone daily, like the Democratic leadership, it's very easy to not realize how much someone has changed over time. Especially when you don't want to see it. And he did genuinely seem fine a lot of the time. The mind believes what it wants to believe.

2. One of the reasons for Hillary s poor performance was the primary against Bernie. Sanders convinced a lot of people that Hillary is far from what they want (correctly), and that did lose the Dems votes.

Biden as a sitting president would make for a much better target, and it would not just paint Biden but all Democrats with a brush they don't want to be painted with. The Democrats have somewhat of a winning streak going, and a core part their strategy has mostly been running unoffensive candidates who are positive and label the other side as toxic (which they are).

A proper Democratic primary would have been attacking Biden on his age, Gaza and immigration, three obvious things he's weak on and things a lot of the Democratic base is unhappy with.

However, a sitting president still tends to win the primaries, so all that would have done is get the Democratic base to argue over internal disagreements and remind everyone that they don't like Democratic politics either.

3. The Democrats are (correctly) super scared, and they have an insane amount of pressure on them. They are supposed to not just win an election, but to save democracy as we know it, very literally... and globally. If the GOP manages to grab and consolidate power and the US becomes another dictatorship alongside China and Russia, you can be sure that smaller democracies all over the world would very quickly start to buckle under the combined, united pressure of three superpowers to turn towards authoritarianism.

How scared would you be, if you knew that you were tasked with saving the world, and in order to do that you have to successfully win in an extremely long and complicated process called "a US presidential election"?

Fear makes people want to play safe, to the point of stupidity. And that's how we get into a situation where they are running Kamala Harris, someone who basically no one thinks is the best or even a particularly good candidate.

4. Right now, the stakes are just too high to for a Democratic primary to really matter. Conservatives keep saying that Democrats "should be angry" over Harris being chosen... But they aren't, because the base also knows what's at stake and most people generally agree that the main thing right now is just beating Trump. They see what happened, they understand the reasoning and generally people accept that it's acceptable given the circumstances.

It's also worth noting that because the Democrats are a party and not a cult, the head of the party isn't super important. A Harris administration would not be that different from a Shapiro, Whitner etc. administration.

If the Democrats win, they will have time to complain about what happened after the election, and under the circumstances, that's enough.

There is just no point mulling over any of this stuff for any reasonable person, because Trump and the GOP are just so terrible. Yeah, that does mean that the US is not much of a democracy, because there is only one reasonable option to vote for... but that's the GOP's doing, not the Dems.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

"How he walks and talks" is not an indicator of whether he can do the job of president.

It’s absolutely indicative, because he’s dealing with dementia and almost surely Parkinson’s. I feel for him because I genuinely think he’s a good person with his heart in the right place. He’s also completely unfit to serve as president and frankly it’s borderline elder abuse to have him continue. This was the right decision for everyone, albeit a couple of years too late.

Honestly, take the politics out of it and forget that he was running against Trump (who I assume you hate). The poor guy has some cognitive issues that are increasingly evident. Those things don’t get better as we get older, and the decline can be precipitous.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by curves2000

Nobody is saying that Trump doesn't lie, we all know that. Lies 30 hours a day, 400 days a year. This isn't a whataboutism. I expected more in this scenario from the Biden Whitehouse.

If you go and see a few of the press conferences after the debate, the mainstream, normal media was freaking out. This wasn't some right wing conspiracy. The Whitehouse went from Biden's vitality and mental acuity to explaining to the media that effectively going forward, the Presidents campaign and work related events were over at 8 pm for him to rest and that more time during the day for naps would be provided.

The free press was trying to get basic answers to his medical information and the press secretary couldn't keep a basic answer straight.

"President hasn't seen a Dr since January at his physical. He's fine"
"The President has an excellent medical team with him at all times at his disposal"
"He saw a Dr prior to the debate"
"He didn't actually see a Dr before the debate, he talked to one on the phone"


It just got out of hand for this particular issue to the point where the gig was up. Game was over, fat lady sung. They couldn't sell it anymore cause nobody was buying.

Trump lies like no other but Biden telling us he's doing this on his own accord is about as honest as Trump. His Presidency was effectively taken away

It's not like it is the first time this has happened.


https://lib.arizona.edu/hsl/material...et-illness/fdr