Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote, Formenton charged with sexual assault

[PegCityFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Well, the financial means of the league and its owners would mean it could quite possibly devote more resources to an investigation than the LPD. Also, this whole saga has shown how incompetent that police force is, and it's blowing up big time on the NHL. It's a big hit to their image that guys involved in this have been cashing checks for years from its clubs.

Do you think it's a coincidence the Salt Lake stuff came out the same day? In hindsight I'm sure Bettman wishes they'd snuffed out the culprits much earlier.

Police announcing their presser for after the big Toronto Allstar game is a little suspect to me.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Who said they failed to come up with anything?

There is/was a criminal investigation occurring simultaneously which would 100% be allowed to be completed before the league says a single word about all this.

It's the right way to do things.

Sure, but if the league had proof, perhaps not to the standard of police, I'd say they are on very shaky ethical ground now. It's a PR disaster for the NHL. Perhaps though it was a damned if they do, damned if they don't situation.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Just curious - and haven't seen it on this thread (but could have missed it): are there any players from that WJC team who aren't currently in the NHL other than Formenton?

Comtois is on an AHL deal with the Wolves but he's not on leave. Tyler Steenbergen is in a Slovak league. Colton Point is not playing this year.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan

Police announcing their presser for after the big Toronto Allstar game is a little suspect to me.

It's still more than a week away, truly baffling. A generally level-headed forum like this one is throwing out every theory under the sun, imagine what the discourse is like on twitter and reddit. The rumour mill must be out of control already.

I'd be surprised if Bettman gets asked any questions actually relating to the season or the ASG. He's going to be hounded by reporters in hockey's biggest market.

[Strange Brew]

Well the whole delay of justice here is sickening. I don't know how to put that on the NHL or the Flames.

Assuming a crime was actually committed of course. It must be so much harder to prove now that the alleged perpetrators have 5+ years to get their stories straight.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Well, the financial means of the league and its owners would mean it could quite possibly devote more resources to an investigation than the LPD. Also, this whole saga has shown how incompetent that police force is, and it's blowing up big time on the NHL. It's a big hit to their image that guys involved in this have been cashing checks for years from its clubs.

Do you think it's a coincidence the Salt Lake stuff came out the same day? In hindsight I'm sure Bettman wishes they'd snuffed out the culprits much earlier.

I agree that there are signs that this hasn't been handled well by the LPD, and it will be interesting to see how that shakes out. But that doesn't mean that somehow the NHL would be equipped to handle it. Why would a pro sports team have the expertise and capabilities to handle this type of investigation.

What you are proposing frankly makes no sense.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

It's still more than a week away, truly baffling. A generally level-headed forum like this one is throwing out every theory under the sun, imagine what the discourse is like on twitter and reddit. The rumour mill must be out of control already.

I'd be surprised if Bettman gets asked any questions actually relating to the season or the ASG. He's going to be hounded by reporters in hockey's biggest market.

Well he's not going to talk about it at all so they may as well think of some other questions.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan

Police announcing their presser for after the big Toronto Allstar game is a little suspect to me.

When would be a good time?

They gave the 5 people they have demanded to turn themselves in, one week to comply. The presser is the following Monday, after that one week. Seems reasonable. Frankly, I doubt the London police gave one single thought to the NHL's schedule, when announcing their presser. But even if they did - what of it? What difference does it make? What are you suspect of, exactly?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Yeah the police don't care about the NHL's schedule. At all.

[dustygoon]

Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan

Police announcing their presser for after the big Toronto Allstar game is a little suspect to me.

A lawyer said you usually have 2 weeks to turn yourself in or whatever the language was. Is that presser two weeks from Dube’s LOA?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

Well, the financial means of the league and its owners would mean it could quite possibly devote more resources to an investigation than the LPD. Also, this whole saga has shown how incompetent that police force is, and it's blowing up big time on the NHL. It's a big hit to their image that guys involved in this have been cashing checks for years from its clubs.

Do you think it's a coincidence the Salt Lake stuff came out the same day? In hindsight I'm sure Bettman wishes they'd snuffed out the culprits much earlier.

What resources would those be?

[Since1984]

Originally Posted by PegCityFlamesFan

Police announcing their presser for after the big Toronto Allstar game is a little suspect to me.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

When would be a good time?

They gave the 5 people they have demanded to turn themselves in, one week to comply. The presser is the following Monday, after that one week. Seems reasonable. Frankly, I doubt the London police gave one single thought to the NHL's schedule, when announcing their presser. But even if they did - what of it? What difference does it make? What are you suspect of, exactly?

To add on to Enoch's take, Police often give up to 2 weeks for people to surrender themselves to police when there is little to no risk of the offenders fleeing.

This all lines up with a pretty standard timeline in those cases.

[Jason14h]

People watch too much TV thinking the police will come kick down the door and arrest them at their homes and slap handcuffs on them

Police contact their lawyers and give them one week to get their affairs in order and surrender . This is how most arrests actually go - especially for extremely low to repeat type crimes/ non violent crimes

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

What resources would those be?

They could hire every firm that specialises in these kinds of investigations under the sun, for a start. Actually speak with Hockey Canada and the players involved. Make them sweat and see what comes up. I find it hard to believe that for the money they would've thrown at this, they just shrugged their shoulders and said case closed.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Squirrel

generally speaking we should not equate a person’s feelings of guilt and stress from alleged crimes they’ve committed with actual mental illness.

Why not? And, I am asking this from a place of interest—how exactly do we define "mental illness," and "mental health"? What counts, and what doesn't?


Sent from my SM-G986W using Tapatalk

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

They could hire every firm that specialises in these kinds of investigations under the sun, for a start. Actually speak with Hockey Canada and the players involved. Make them sweat and see what comes up.

Did the Police not do that?

I honestly don't know the extent of the police investigation.

Can you give me a rundown on it so I can make an uneducated decision on whether or not their investigation was substandard.

[cam_calderon]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

Did the Police not do that?

I honestly don't know the extent of the police investigation.

Can you give me a rundown on it so I can make an uneducated decision on whether or not their investigation was substandard.

Neither do I. I'm just saying, this looks possibly as awful on the league and the clubs involved as the LPD. Shrugging your shoulders and saying case closed was not an adequate resolution.

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

In the case where there is a criminal investigation, that trumps a league one, and the league will wait for that investigation to complete itself before revealing anything on their end.
Which I think makes sense. Why would the NHL be in better position to complete this investigation than the actual police?

I agree and that's why I'm disgusted with the London Police first and foremost. The victim's stepfather called Hockey Canada and they forwarded the complaint to the police immediately. London Police closed their investigation without recommending charges. Not sure what Hockey Canada was obliged to do and no cause for the NHL to do anything. Of course the settlement of the Civil suit is another issue but it took the federal government and media fallout to get London police to re-investigate with the assistance of what the legal investigation paid for by the NHL found.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by cam_calderon

They could hire every firm that specialises in these kinds of investigations under the sun, for a start. Actually speak with Hockey Canada and the players involved. Make them sweat and see what comes up. I find it hard to believe that for the money they would've thrown at this, they just shrugged their shoulders and said case closed.

I haven't followed all of this thread. And no doubt, there are somethings that the NHL could do on this re: investigating. But part of what makes this different (I would suspect, I'm not an expert) is the the fact that this incident, did not occur in the NHL work place or while the accused were working for the NHL. This limits the scope of what can be accomplished effectively for an internal investigation.

Where I'm going, is what are you proposing happen? The NHL hire it's own investigators who would, to have any sort of effectiveness, would need to interview witnesses AND most importantly the victim. Why would the victim want or agree to that, to have to tell her story over and over again, to different investigators than the actual police and ones that actually will impact the legal proceedings? I think with some of this thirst for justice and public accountability, we are forgetting who is actually most important here. The victim, and their desires and comfort level. Not sure a lot of what is being proposed in here, while I think well intentioned, actually helps that, it just creates more of a circus.

Also, can you imagine how the NHL doing it's own private investigation would look and get spun.......... NHL would be getting in the way of actual law enforcement (likely being a road block to actual justice), and they would for sure be seen as running an investigation on behalf of and defense of their employees, not the victim. Don't think that would be helpful at all.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I understand the Flames are in a tricky spot here as an employer. They’re basically just passing along the info that Dube gave them for taking a leave. Does an employer start digging into the reason with them? Imagine if you said you needed to take a mental health leave from work and your boss was like, “we’ve heard things, is that really why?”

As an employer, I am not allowed to ask what they're sick with.