Rate your current mental health level out of 10

[Fuzz]

Your lawyer won't be pissed, he'll be happy to help. From the sounds of it they haven't been acting in good faith, so try not to stress about it until you talk to the lawyer, but definitely don't worry about how they feel about it. That's a stress you don't need this weekend. They'll be happy to help.

[Jiri Hrdina]

If you aren’t already doing this document everything in as much detail as possible. Every meeting and conversation including who said what in those. Facts are your friend in these cases
And forward any relevant documentation and emails to your personal email so you have them in case suddenly you are cut off.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

If you aren’t already doing this document everything in as much detail as possible. Every meeting and conversation including who said what in those. Facts are your friend in these cases
And forward any relevant documentation and emails to your personal email so you have them in case suddenly you are cut off.

Yesss! Keep nothing on Company Servers. Very important.

[Andrew]

Repeat to them what they said. Summarize in email ask to respond.
If in person try to get a witness. When possible everything over email.
As repeated above forward to personal email.
Take notes right after conversation and send email with date and time to document.

I do this when talk to insurance.
When I coach employees also try to confirm via email in writing it's effective in hr.

Stick to facts! Don't put judgement statements. Use numbers dates times wherever possible things can't diapute

[bluejays]

Just something I was advised against doing was to email myself from the company computers. I know some are throwing that out there, but I was informed companies have policies against that because they don't want company stuff on external servers which can be scanned by those servers. I personally don't care to know if the policy is true or not as they've blocked those external email providers and have tracking software for anything sent. Certain emails are also flagged which is a fact for my organization. So again, no interest in doing that. But I have taken pictures or printed a significant amount of emails out which would hopefully help my case. I have to get better at confirmation emails back to the bosses.

[bluejays]

Some info I had this morning from talking with a friends sister in the legal field is that the court systems are backed up 2-3 years. So if I were to walk away and file for constructive dismissal it would take a lot of time to get to that point. And further it's on me to prove. They're skewing facts so in my response to them I'll have to professionally respond with times and dates, etc. It's such a process and shame. Hoping on Monday I can talk to my own lawyer about asking to exit again through a severance. First time around he said he'd target 75-80% of the full value, but it could inevitably be lower.

[Fuzz]

I'm not a lawyer, just speaking form experience form someone else I know who went throguh this, but essentially what I suspect the lawyer will do is send a letter agreeing that both parties are aggrieved, and an amicable settlement is desired. The company is clearly trying to get rid of you, and it's in their interest to settle quickly. They will most likely accept it, if what you are saying is true.

[Jason14h]

If they were trying to get rid of you I don’t think they would suggest short term medical leave

It is almost impossible to fire someone for cause if they go on doctor ordered short term medical league and the fact that they are encouraging it is “weird” if they are trying to terminate with cause

Take the leave and when you come back you may have a full severance waiting for you as well if they decide it was better with you not around

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I'm not a lawyer, just speaking form experience form someone else I know who went throguh this, but essentially what I suspect the lawyer will do is send a letter agreeing that both parties are aggrieved, and an amicable settlement is desired. The company is clearly trying to get rid of you, and it's in their interest to settle quickly. They will most likely accept it, if what you are saying is true.

I largely agree. It's more about what would that package look like.

Originally Posted by Jason14h

If they were trying to get rid of you I don’t think they would suggest short term medical leave

It is almost impossible to fire someone for cause if they go on doctor ordered short term medical league and the fact that they are encouraging it is “weird” if they are trying to terminate with cause

Take the leave and when you come back you may have a full severance waiting for you as well if they decide it was better with you not around

It's actually simpler than you'd believe. Our company has said they value mental health (moreso in words). And my VP said she experienced anxiety herself before. But they're trying to methodically poke holes at any pieces I'm outlining to them to say they've done their part the best they can so they're not seen as personally being ignorant to my needs. They're saying all the right things a text book would say, but are doing the opposite when it comes to changing the narrative while documenting.

[Wormius]

BlueJays, I am not sure if the meetings you have been in have sort of danced around the issue, but have you been able to ask plainly if and why the outcome they’re trying to achieve is to see you gone from the company? It seems like they’re going about this in a very roundabout way or everyone is being overly coy for some reason.

[Locke]

[bluejays]

^ Wormus, quoting not working. I haven't asked and they won't answer it truthfully for liability. In a large organization there are policies and procedures in place. If there's an agenda for whatever reason where they want their own people in, they still have to go within the organizations policy. They probably don't want to be put in a bind with the legal group when it's needed so they have to do things by the textbook while also keeping the ultimate agenda in mind. If they ignore my mental struggles it opens them to other issues so they're saying the right thing while still wanting to get rid of me when the time is right.

[Jason14h]

But once you go on short term medical leave - especially supported / recommended by the company - there is basically no way they can dismiss you with cause unless you commit fraud (even not showing up would be hard as you can easily claim that the same reoccurring issues are happening )

Why not just take the short term leave ? When you come back either they will suggest Parting ways (with severance) or your job will be waiting

What is it you want to get out of this in your ideal situation in your perfect world

I think you might be overthinking this a bit . Obviously they want to ensure they are doing things by the book - but now that you have the opportunity to take some time away and regroup on short term medical isn’t that the best thing moving forward short term ?

If you were a good employee before they may genuinely hope you come back refreshed / reenergized / whatever and start contributing again

And if not you will most likely come back to a severance package to end the relationship

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

But once you go on short term medical leave - especially supported / recommended by the company - there is basically no way they can dismiss you with cause unless you commit fraud (even not showing up would be hard as you can easily claim that the same reoccurring issues are happening )

Why not just take the short term leave ? When you come back either they will suggest Parting ways (with severance) or your job will be waiting

What is it you want to get out of this in your ideal situation in your perfect world

I think you might be overthinking this a bit . Obviously they want to ensure they are doing things by the book - but now that you have the opportunity to take some time away and regroup on short term medical isn’t that the best thing moving forward short term ?

If you were a good employee before they may genuinely hope you come back refreshed / reenergized / whatever and start contributing again

And if not you will most likely come back to a severance package to end the relationship

A few points:
- they're tailoring the narrative to not be honest but also they said on my performance appraisal I'm not fit for the role. With my previous boss, that wasn't the case

- medical leave I've heard for mental illness is difficult. If you tell the case manager assigned that it's a work situation, it's likely to get denied (I've been told). I have no interest to lie to them.
- with cause is almost impossible because they have to document and provide too high amount of evidence, correct
- because I've always performed well and long tenured, I've been told that it'll likely be a long PIP process. Everything I've read about PIP is it can be mentally hell and a way to gather evidence to push you down
- all in all, they don't care if I come back as a good employee as the second the new boss came in she had it in for me. They're trying to cover their butt and say they did all the right things. Problem is I don't even know if I'll get approved for short term given I don't want to take drugs, and I'm only doing psychotherapy, plus the aforementioned workplace issue driving this more than anything

[Whynotnow]

Originally Posted by bluejays

A few points:
- they're tailoring the narrative to not be honest but also they said on my performance appraisal I'm not fit for the role. With my previous boss, that wasn't the case

- medical leave I've heard for mental illness is difficult. If you tell the case manager assigned that it's a work situation, it's likely to get denied (I've been told). I have no interest to lie to them.
- with cause is almost impossible because they have to document and provide too high amount of evidence, correct
- because I've always performed well and long tenured, I've been told that it'll likely be a long PIP process. Everything I've read about PIP is it can be mentally hell and a way to gather evidence to push you down
- all in all, they don't care if I come back as a good employee as the second the new boss came in she had it in for me. They're trying to cover their butt and say they did all the right things. Problem is I don't even know if I'll get approved for short term given I don't want to take drugs, and I'm only doing psychotherapy, plus the aforementioned workplace issue driving this more than anything

I have lots of experience dealing with employees on leave, and would dispute that medical leave for mental illness is hard. The opposite may even be true in my experience as we can figure out physical accommodations pretty easily in many cases, mental ones not so much. Not trying to steer you here, just giving my experience from leadership on that front.

If you have a diagnosis, it should be treated like all other claims.

[CliffFletcher]

I know a couple people who have gone on short team disability for mental health. It was a matter of telling their doctor they were too stressed to work and handle everyday tasks, and they got a note. Pretty simple. If anything, it might be too easy, as one of them admitted to me that she didn’t like her new boss and wanted some time off while she looked for another job.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by bluejays

A few points:
- they're tailoring the narrative to not be honest but also they said on my performance appraisal I'm not fit for the role. With my previous boss, that wasn't the case

- medical leave I've heard for mental illness is difficult. If you tell the case manager assigned that it's a work situation, it's likely to get denied (I've been told). I have no interest to lie to them.
- with cause is almost impossible because they have to document and provide too high amount of evidence, correct
- because I've always performed well and long tenured, I've been told that it'll likely be a long PIP process. Everything I've read about PIP is it can be mentally hell and a way to gather evidence to push you down
- all in all, they don't care if I come back as a good employee as the second the new boss came in she had it in for me. They're trying to cover their butt and say they did all the right things. Problem is I don't even know if I'll get approved for short term given I don't want to take drugs, and I'm only doing psychotherapy, plus the aforementioned workplace issue driving this more than anything

I’m not sure what a case manager is, so just in case it’s work related: You employer will not and should not ever know a single detail about the leave.

You tell your doctor. They provide a note which you give directly to your benefits provider. All your employer needs to know is that the leave is starting, and that you’ll let them know when they can expect you back once you figure that out. The only people who can dispute your leave are your doctor and your benefits provider - and neither of them are going to if you needed leave for your health.

If the case manager is from your benefits… there’s no way they are denying something your doctor says. They also won’t really get details, just that leave is happening and your doctor agreed.

[Acey]

Anybody been to therapy in the city? Any recommendations?

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

The current world is very strenuous and over-stimulating. It's easy to lose yourself (your own unique, self-generated thoughts and needs separate from every one else's) in being a spectator to so many people and things that phones and social media has opened us up to. Every new thing elicits reactions, comparisons, cheap dopamine, diversion of focus from more meaningful things, etc. We've never been surrounded with so many sensory and cognitive stimuli.

Unplugging and tending to how you're feeling is so essential. I'm learning that doing that inner house cleaning needs to be step one before doing anything heavily action oriented.

At some point I want to try a complete social media detox as an experiment to see just how profound the effects are on mental health. But I think just scheduling your social media exposure to a specific window of time in the day and having all notifications off the rest of the day would do wonders.

[shermanator]

Originally Posted by Acey

Anybody been to therapy in the city? Any recommendations?

I have heard that finding a counsellor that is right for you can be the toughest part. Personally, I used a counsellor through Calgary Counselling. I thought the counsellor I had was a good fit for me and for what I needed, we were able to get through things in a few months.

Best of luck!

https://calgarycounselling.com/