Should the Flames fire Gulutzan?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

I think the GG supporters need to realize that the non GG supporters are not hoping the flames fall into the basement.

This is a point that needs to be emphasized. People want Gulutzan sacked because he is guiding the team in the wrong direction and not getting results. The hope is that a new driver will make the appropriate corrections and save the team from a very embarrassing finish that the current staff has the team headed toward.

I equate this to being a car with a bad driver. You know the car is good because it is made up of solid components that have been tested prior to assembly. But the car is acting erratically and not performing. So do you change the parts of the car, or do you try a different person behind the wheel? I believe the decision is pretty obvious. You try a different driver, considering all the expensive upgrades made to the car in question.

Now I understand the Gulutzan defenders. They are vested in his hiring and want to see him succeed. In the above scenario the driver is someone they know and trust (their wife or their kid), and they don't want to believe that someone they trust so much could be such a ####ty driver. They firmly believe that their trust in the person behind the wheel is well placed, regardless of the broken side mirrors, dented quarter panels, and scraped up bumpers. The fact that they manage to get from point A to point B alive and well must mean they are a good driver. The fancy stat of "arrivals at destination alive" supersede the obvious damage to the car in their minds, and I can understand that. But at some point they have to take a walk around the vehicle and get a much cleared picture of what is really happening on those trips behind the wheel.

Expanding on this metaphor, we're going full Thelma and Louise. The car is careening toward the edge of a cliff and the guy behind the wheel isn't making any corrections. We still have time to switch the driver and see if a new guy is sane enough to make alterations in the course of the vehicle. We're picking up speed and the edge is getting closer, almost to the point where it won't matter who is behind the wheel. I'd like to give another guy a chance behind the wheel, because the current guy has us going...

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Yeah, I think as the teams fortunes have improved over the years BT has switched from build to go for it mode. That’s the right call. I agree they have a great prospect pool and can survive a couple of years worth of aggressive trades involving future picks.

I guess one way BT could help GG is by making the roster a bit more fool proof and dealing with non NHL players like Stajan and F Hamilton. I guess that’s the shake up.

I’m sure GG makes it to the end of the season. If flames fail there will be a new coach. If they fail next season there will be a new GM at the start of 19/20.

I don’t think those are crazy predictions.

Should have done this earlier and given the team time to blend together. and develop an identity. Do we know what type of team we are from night to night; Fast, skilled, or hardest working? The Flames missed the boat trying to
work with what we have, instead of raising the bar.


Now with the top line and some scoring struggles we are left experimenting and looking for answers at mid season... unacceptable.

To add to the problem, the bar was lowered once we allowed those Edmonton teams to beat us. What Darryl and Hartley did was raise the bar and create expectations. Instead the issues with players playing within the system became the excuse and the team lacked internal drive and motivation to come "prepared" and beat the oiler's at all costs.


I believe it was a preseason game but recall Hartley pissed when the Flames played a casual game and lost to the oilers. Expectations = consistency we just don't have it in spades. The Flames need a coach who is a motivator and can tap into what drives a player to want to elevate his game within the game on the ice.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Should have done this earlier and given the team time to blend together. and develop an identity. Do we know what type of team we are from night to night; Fast, skilled, or hardest working? The Flames missed the boat trying to
work with what we have, instead of raising the bar.


Now with the top line and some scoring struggles we are left experimenting and looking for answers at mid season... unacceptable.

To add to the problem, the bar was lowered once we allowed those Edmonton teams to beat us. What Darryl and Hartley did was raise the bar and create expectations. Instead the issues with players playing within the system became the excuse and the team lacked internal drive and motivation to come "prepared" and beat the oiler's at all costs.


I believe it was a preseason game but recall Hartley pissed when the Flames played a casual game and lost to the oilers. Expectations = consistency we just don't have it in spades. The Flames need a coach who is a motivator and can tap into what drives a player to want to elevate his game within the game on the ice.

Precisely.

Let the assistants deal with the X's and O's and get the team ready to play the game.

They should be hitting the ice ready to play.

[Badgers Nose]

After this shake up, if the next move is fire GG who do you get to replace him?

Is there a guy who could come in and turn it around? Or are we kissing 17/18 goodbye and getting ready for next season?

D Sutter fits the description of a guy who might get immediate results, but do you really think BT could convince him to come back? B Burke is a hindrance to that happening, no?

Would he be able to get his assistants? Or would we be stuck with the current batch? That seems like it would be a problem.

Anyone else besides Sutter? Or are we back to 'up and comer' coaches?

Maybe D Sutter with Sutter assistants too! LOL

[Monahan For Mayor]

^ Off he top of my head as far as veteran coaches. Ruff and Tippet.

[Brick]

I voted yes.

The Flames haven't beaten the Oilers since GG came here. That was a huge red flag.

They lost 4 straight in the playoffs last year.

He doesn't seem to have them prepared to win at all costs in big games.

Frack the system, they need to play with more heart and just win the games that matter.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Monahan For Mayor

^ Off he top of my head as far as veteran coaches. Ruff and Tippet.

Tippet would be too boring. Isn't Ruff kind of like Bob but one less cup?

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Brick

I voted yes.

The Flames haven't beaten the Oilers since GG came here. That was a huge red flag.

They lost 4 straight in the playoffs last year.

He doesn't seem to have them prepared to win at all costs in big games.

Frack the system, they need to play with more heart and just win the games that matter.

That's a great point. Every year the Flames don't win the cup, the consolation is finishing ahead of the Oilers. Hard to do that when you spot them the season series.

[Monahan For Mayor]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Tippet would be too boring. Isn't Ruff kind of like Bob but one less cup?

Yes ruff has a similar style as Hartley, so probably a no go there. Tippet has been discussed a lot in here. Many people think Tippet was boring because that is the style of game a bad talentless Arizona team had to play. I'd be on board for Tippet. His talented Dallas teams did very well.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by New Era

This is a point that needs to be emphasized. People want Gulutzan sacked because he is guiding the team in the wrong direction and not getting results. The hope is that a new driver will make the appropriate corrections and save the team from a very embarrassing finish that the current staff has the team headed toward.

I equate this to being a car with a bad driver. You know the car is good because it is made up of solid components that have been tested prior to assembly. But the car is acting erratically and not performing. So do you change the parts of the car, or do you try a different person behind the wheel? I believe the decision is pretty obvious. You try a different driver, considering all the expensive upgrades made to the car in question.

Now I understand the Gulutzan defenders. They are vested in his hiring and want to see him succeed. In the above scenario the driver is someone they know and trust (their wife or their kid), and they don't want to believe that someone they trust so much could be such a ####ty driver. They firmly believe that their trust in the person behind the wheel is well placed, regardless of the broken side mirrors, dented quarter panels, and scraped up bumpers. The fact that they manage to get from point A to point B alive and well must mean they are a good driver. The fancy stat of "arrivals at destination alive" supersede the obvious damage to the car in their minds, and I can understand that. But at some point they have to take a walk around the vehicle and get a much cleared picture of what is really happening on those trips behind the wheel.

Expanding on this metaphor, we're going full Thelma and Louise. The car is careening toward the edge of a cliff and the guy behind the wheel isn't making any corrections. We still have time to switch the driver and see if a new guy is sane enough to make alterations in the course of the vehicle. We're picking up speed and the edge is getting closer, almost to the point where it won't matter who is behind the wheel. I'd like to give another guy a chance behind the wheel, because the current guy has us going...

This is analogy is complete nonsense. I don't want gulutzan fired because he is a buddy of mine who is a bad driver?

To what end is this car being driven? Like as a part of a race? Is that how this analogy is weakly related to hockey? Swing and a miss.

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

I think the GG supporters need to realize that the non GG supporters are not hoping the flames fall into the basement. While I don't think GG is the coach to take this team to the next level, I would rather be proven wrong than right.

That's good that you and others think that, but I feel the posters who are getting the most hear are the ones actively and quite evidently cheering for the flames to lose.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

D Sutter fits the description of a guy who might get immediate results, but do you really think BT could convince him to come back?

Yep, I'm not certain but I think it's possible.

[Badgers Nose]

https://www.tsn.ca/13-potential-nhl-...dates-1.901777

because of his ability to coach young super stars:

"ADAM OATES
Current role: Individual skills coach
Age: 55
NHL record: 65-48-17 (.565)
Scoop: Since 2015, when Oates finished off the New Jersey Devils season as co-coach with Scott Stevens, he has been acting as an individual skills coach to more than 50 NHL players – from stars like Mark Scheifele, Steven Stamkos and Ryan Suter, to the rank-and-file. His lone full season with the Capitals remains the only one over the last decade that Washington failed to make the playoffs, but would a GM be willing to take a flier on Oates if he thinks a special relationship with one of his stars could ignite the team?"

[blender]

Originally Posted by New Era

The fancy stat of "arrivals at destination alive" supersede the obvious damage to the car in their minds, and I can understand that.

Quoted for pure comedy gold. Well done.

[Tailgator]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Tippet would be too boring. Isn't Ruff kind of like Bob but one less cup?

As opposed to the super exciting, edge of your seat hockey gully has them playing? Seriously, this team is awful with him at the helm - this period has been damn near unwatchable and I seem to be saying that in a lot of games this season.

[transplant99]

The compete level is abysmal once again.

This club is so freaking soft.

[gargamel]

Originally Posted by Major Major

That's good that you and others think that, but I feel the posters who are getting the most hear are the ones actively and quite evidently cheering for the flames to lose.

I haven't seen any Flames fans cheering for the Flames to lose. Quite the opposite. They believe this team has talent and shouldn't be losing as much as they have been for the past year and a half.

In fact, the only people who want the Flames to lose are fans of other teams, and I get the impression that they'd love it if we kept Gulutzan.

[kukkudo]

nvm

[Major Major]

Originally Posted by gargamel

I haven't seen any Flames fans cheering for the Flames to lose. Quite the opposite. They believe this team has talent and shouldn't be losing as much as they have been for the past year and a half.

In fact, the only people who want the Flames to lose are fans of other teams, and I get the impression that they'd love it if we kept Gulutzan.

You haven't? It's been brought up in several game threads, pgts where people are upset that they've won, and is fairly evident when someone says that they'd fire GG even if they made the playoffs.

[Badgers Nose]

One crazy person said they would fire him even if they won the cup. Haha!

People are allowed to have opinions. Not sure why it bothers people so much. Just have a chuckle and move on. We are all just a bunch of bums talking about hockey.