2016 NFL Season

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by PostandIn

And don't forget that the Broncos have Von Miller and that means they have the best defense of all time.

Von Miller is better than Seattle's entire pass rush combined so yeah I would say so.

[PostandIn]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

Von Miller is better than Seattle's entire pass rush combined so yeah I would say so.

The guru has spoken.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by PostandIn

The guru has spoken.

Do you disagree? I mean....who is even close to Miller on the Seattle side? Michael Bennett is great too but he isnt in Millers area code...no one is except maybe JJ Watt.

You really don't have to defend a Seahawks club that's really good just because someone else is better.

You add in a Ware and Ray with him and that's one nasty pass rush.

[Senator Clay Davis]

What's funniest is I've praised Seattle's defense plenty, and predicted they would destroy the Broncos offense in SB48. It's not like I'm anti-Seahawks or anything.

[Wood]

SCD said Denver and New England are the best teams in the AFC. Why are you trying so hard to defend an NFC team?

Seattles defense is great, no need to still be butthurt the next day

[Sylvanfan]

So in terms of some proper football talk.

3 weeks in and there is only 5 undefeated teams left

AFC
New England
Baltimore
Denver

NFC
Philly
Minnesota

Out of the teams on that list, I don't think any of them are doing it with their high priced QB scoring 35 points a game. They're all relying on strong defense coupled with running the ball, making enough plays in the passing game, and trying to limit mistakes. I'm not going to spend time finding all this data and I'm sure as hell not going back 4 years. I also admit that this is really early and things could be drastically different by year end. Merely that 20% of the way into the season, this could be a trend.

Out of the undefeated teams, I would argue that only Baltimore doesn't have at least one impressive win to their credit. The other 4 have all had to beat at least one good team that was thought to be a pretty strong prior to the season.

Philly is likely the most surprising to me given how they rolled the Steelers yesterday. Their D looks pretty good to start the season, maybe they will be a bit Steeler like from Roethlisberger's rookie year where Wentz just has to take care of the ball and not get in the way of his defense.

Minnesota is also a bit of a surprise to me given what the QB situation looked like. Holding the likes of Green Bay and Carolina in back to back weeks at least by feel is pretty impressive.

Arizona and Carolina both at 1-2 is somewhat surprising. If New Orleans wins MNF, the entire NFC South is 1-2...somewhat fitting. Seattle and Green Bay still have good teams, but I think both have come down a peg from where they used to be. Good enough to still be playoff teams and maybe even get to the Superbowl, but no longer automatic weekly winners. Unless Philly comes back to open up the NFC East, I don't see the Giants or Cowboys edging out the runners up in the North or West for a Wild Card berth unless Carson Palmer...keeps playing like this Carson Palmer.

Baltimore I thought would bounce back this year given the injuries they had last year, but I need to see them play some better teams first. Granted many teams that weren't necessarily good make the playoffs because they won games early in the season that they should have. So the Ravens have done that. If they figure out how to spit with Pittsburgh and Cinci, they could take the Division.

New England and Denver....I think these two still look to be the class of the AFC, especially with the stinker Pittsburgh threw up yesterday. Cincinatti have lost two games in a row to the teams they'd need to be better than to be considered a threat, particularly a 12 point home loss to Denver. Houston and KC have already shown they lack fire power on offence to live any longer than the Division round. The Jets won't do anything with 6patrick tossing picks. Indy's defence is too suspect plus their lack of a running game. Oakland I think still need another year to get themselves sorted out. Maybe a playoff threat this year but might be able to win a wild card round game and than done. San Diego know how to be in games that are close losses. The AFC South is not improved, and the Dolphins and Bills would do well to be 8-8 teams....again.

We'll see how out of date this all looks by next week when the quarter point is reached.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Sainters7

You should've heard Jim Rome gushing about them - and specifically Wentz - this morning as the show started. Basically the only thing he talked about the first 15min. After crushing Pittsburgh - especially at a time when it was the only good matchup and thus had a lot of eyeballs - expect the Eagles/Wentz hype train to officially leave the station.

Quite a few rookie QB's getting off to successful starts but the more tape teams gather the greater the likelihood that teams will find schemes that give them trouble. Lots will change between now and week 17.

[Erick Estrada]

So much for all the talk about the AFC South being the most improved division.

[Sylvanfan]

To me Seattle's issues are on offence. The offensive line isn't the unit it was during the Superbowl years. The run game no longer has Beast mode to intimidate the opposition. Russel Wilson has already come out of one game, looked ineffective in another, and barely made it thru the first game. If they don't have a healthy Russel Wilson to back that defence I don't think they're much of a threat. This applies to pretty much any team, but right now it's looking to be more of a reality in Seattle than say Green Bay.

This is also why I think Pittsburgh isn't a true contender. I expect that they have to play 2-4 games with no Ben, and that's enough to put them on the road in the Division round and I don't see that team winning two road games to make the Superbowl.

[PostandIn]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Do you disagree? I mean....who is even close to Miller on the Seattle side? Michael Bennett is great too but he isnt in Millers area code...no one is except maybe JJ Watt.

You really don't have to defend a Seahawks club that's really good just because someone else is better.

You add in a Ware and Ray with him and that's one nasty pass rush.

I don't disagree with the specific statement you have made. Von Miller is at the top of his game and the Bronco D, admittedly, looks great. That said, understand that this particular point of discussion is a now a rabbit hole well removed from the comment that started this blow up.

SCD, the stats and polling guru, suddenly disavowed analytics when challenged about an unsupported, un-contextualized comment about the ‘all timeness’ of the Denver D. I made a similar comment about the Seahawks 2012 defence on this board a couple years ago and was immediately assailed by other posters (Da Chief, others) about the Bears, the Ravens, etal.



Today, SCD is quoting all about the US election citing stats and polls but has nothing to offer about how great the Denver D is other than subjective opinion about their pass rush and that Von Miller is more effective than four other guys put together.


CP, as a community, is steeped in the dynamic of 'show proof' and 'back that up!' but in this case I guess certain posters opinions are simply sacrosanct and others are de-legitimized because, well, 'Canuck-fans', even if the point of view is supported by stats and analytics.




Typical of the dynamic of a board where the same 12 or 18 posters dominate every thread and many of the behaviours, as amply demonstrated in the above posts by Sainters, are really just designed to boost their CP street cred (i.e. get lots of thanks). No poster in this thread appears to have the objectivity to even acknowledge the point I made i.e. that a team (regardless of which one) holding the Defensive scoring title for four straight years is noteworthy. I guess it's an anti-Seahawk thing in here. Instead, the false smear of a hopeless bandwagon fan of a pretender team (that mostly cheated and lucked their way to a SB) is used to delegitimize the point that was made. I'm sure there's more sarcasm to follow.

By contrast, I have no problem admitting, for example, that Aaron Rodgers is better than Russel Wilson. He is. Nor is it a problem saying (and I have done previously on this board) that Brady is quite likely the best QB ever and certainly the best who I have seen play. And the Patriots under Belichik are probably the most successful franchise the NFL has seen. I think all the time how awesome it would be be a Patriot fan and enjoy that kind of amazing sustained success. Just because I don't like them (and their fan base even less) doesn't mean that I don't acknowledge greatness when it's obvious.


And to be clear on a point from yesterday that I chose not to reply to in an effort to let some of the emotion come out of the discussion: SCD implied that I claimed a tin-foil hat conspiracy by the NFL last week in LA when the context of the comment I made was in relation to tick-tacky OPI calls that, first, almost never get called on arm-extensions and only if there's a legit push-off or impedance to the ball and second, three were called on one team and none on the other team. I guess context is meaningless when there's a screaming match to be won on an online forum over a game that breeds the tribalism of pro football. A little context for you: try to think about, or look it up, the last time your guys got 3 OPI penalty's in the same game. It's very rare for any team. Couple that with a 15 yard, automatic first down on a completely inconsequential (didn't twist his head, wasn't the primary source of leverage to make the tackle) face mask penalty (used to be a 5 yard penalty with no first down awarded) on a huge third down, yep, I was not happy with the officiating in that game. These kinds of calls in a 9 - 3 game are huge. So, ya, you can say luck of the draw - no big deal - this stuff happens in sports - suck it up. Yet it's Pats fans on this very board that went ballistic regarding the Deflategate fiasco and still portend to this day it was actually a Goodell-inspired conspiracy to frame up Brady and the Patriots. A league engineered take down, not because there actually was evidence of ball tampering or that the Pats have a well known history of pushing well beyond the reasonable interpretation of the rules but because of jealousy of their success. To my memory, almost none of that narrative got challenged here. Why? well Brady, you know, GOAT. Belichik, smarter than all other coaches combined. Men too honourable to even consider cheating, just Champions, you see.

Lastly, you'll notice last week when the Seahawks got penalized for violations during OTA's they quietly took their medicine, didn't whine, claim conspiracy, threaten legal action. If that same thing happened to the Patriots it would be the only thing ESPN would be reporting on and Pats fans would be shrieking anew about a conspiracy.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Oh man lol. Thanks for the laughs. I guess I never realized just how persecuted Seahawks fans really were. I'm praying for them.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by PostandIn

SCD, the stats and polling guru, suddenly disavowed analytics when challenged about an unsupported, un-contextualized comment about the ‘all timeness’ of the Denver D. I made a similar comment about the Seahawks 2012 defence on this board a couple years ago and was immediately assailed by other posters (Da Chief, others) about the Bears, the Ravens, etal.

I was just driving by and got mentioned? What's going on in here?

[ResAlien]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

I was just driving by and got mentioned? What's going on in here?

Don't play coy you know what you did you. Typical Pats fan, spend years pretending you're a Bears fan only to show your true colours now.

[KelVarnsen]

I think someone needs a hug and to be told everything is going to be ok.

[PostandIn]

Originally Posted by KelVarnsen

I think someone needs a hug and to be told everything is going to be ok.

Hey, I apologize for the defensive tone of my posts. Not conducive to furthering a dialog obviously.

[bubbsy]

back for my weekly dolphin whine...........

first win of the season, and it had to be at home to the lowly browns.

.... and it still took OT to do it.

ugh, this franchise is so bad.

[Senator Clay Davis]

The 3 Florida NFL teams should be combined into 1. Maybe it could actually go 9-7. Florida is the king of producing NFL talent, but certainly not of producing good NFL teams.

[Sainters7]

Seahawks will be fine, they always seem to start seasons slowly lately. While still a good team, Arizona is looking like a Super Bowl pretender, 10 wins looks like it could be good enough to win that division.

Weirdly really fired up for this game tonight, haha I know most won't be. Understandable. I've reverted to classic Saints fandom: just beat the dang Falcons. I loved LaCanfora's response on the 960 morning show when Boomer asked him about the game tonight. Basically his response was "it's 2 bad football teams. Who cares?" I really can't argue with that..

Predicting a Saints win tonight. Despite their terribleness, they've pretty much owned this rivalry in the Payton era, and are usually money at home on MNF.

[transplant99]

Bears coach John Fox would not guarantee that Jay Cutler will be the team's starting quarterback when Cutler receives the necessary medical clearance to return from a right thumb sprain.

"I don't think there are any givens. And that's no indictment on anybody," Fox said when asked directly about Cutler.

"This is a day-to-day, week-to-week, what-have-you-done-for-me-lately league, and so we're just trying to get the best 11 guys out there regardless of the position to where we can play a full 60 minutes and get a victory."

About time.

[DropIt]

Originally Posted by transplant99

About time.

Easily said. However the Bears are 5-10 without Cutler, and thats including the 4 games McCown won in his absence 2 years. He is certainly done in Chicago especially this being his last year of guaranteed money. However if the Marcus Mariota project continues to fail, i could see the Titans taking a shot on Cutler as that is where I think his heart has always been.

Cutler came into the Bears organization the same way Brent Sutter came into the Flames, far too late to try and piece together a bunch of overaged, overpriveleged players only to fail miserably. Im still a Cutler fan and hope he catches on somewhere, it just isnt Chicago any longer.