[Trade] Oilers trade Taylor Hall to NJ for Adam Larsson. 1 For 1.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Haha actually I don't know why I have Seimens on there, I flubbed.

But Rattie I'm absolutely sticking with. Larsson is a young 3/4 with some upside but zero offence.

Do you plan to argue with any of the guys I said were better? Or just "NOPE! 4TH overall is important! Yay Oilers!"

Rattie is nowhere near Larsson let alone better. Larsson is right now a solid #3/4.

[bax]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Haha actually I don't know why I have Seimens on there, I flubbed.

But Rattie I'm absolutely sticking with. Larsson is a young 3/4 with some upside but zero offence.

Do you plan to argue with any of the guys I said were better? Or just "NOPE! 4TH overall is important! Yay Oilers!"

Dude I'm a Flames fan. You're just being delusional. I don't care that Larsson was taken 4th overall. In hindsight, yeah that was too early. But a defensively solid, young, RHS, top 4 defenseman is infinite more valuable than a scoring winger who still hasn't made the NHL 5 seasons after being drafted. The guy hasn't even put up 50 points in a season in the AHL. I'm baffled you want to defend that.

As for other guys on the list, I can see the debate. Some you are right on, some you are wrong on. If I can't convince you that Larsson has more value that Rattie then it's not even worth getting into.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by nik-

Rattie is nowhere near Larsson let alone better. Larsson is right now a solid #3/4.

Ok, deleted. Man, some of you guys stick on the most insignificant detail of a point and pretend it negates the whole thing. Composition fallacies abound!

The point remains, and it's a simple one:
Larsson's draft position is now irrelevant to his value.

Who CARES about Rattie? Who cares about the draft? It was five years ago!

[nik-]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Ok, deleted. Man, some of you guys stick on the most insignificant detail of a point and pretend it negates the whole thing. Composition fallacies abound!

The point remains, and it's a simple one:
Larsson's draft position is now irrelevant to his value.

Who CARES about Rattie? Who cares about the draft? It was five years ago!

Well you literally just posted that you were sticking with Rattie being better ... so it seems you care about Rattie lol.

Draft position doesn't matter, but Larsson is still a fine d-man regardless of draft slot.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Larsson is worth so much more than Rattie. You make yourself look uninformed with a statement like that.

[bax]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Ok, deleted. Man, some of you guys stick on the most insignificant detail of a point and pretend it negates the whole thing. Composition fallacies abound!

The point remains, and it's a simple one:
Larsson's draft position is now irrelevant to his value.

Who CARES about Rattie? Who cares about the draft? It was five years ago!

And no one is arguing with you about that point.

It's just when you make false claims to support your argument it devalues and reduces legitimacy to what you're saying.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by bax

And no one is arguing with you about that point.

It's just when you make false claims to support your argument it devalues and reduces legitimacy to what you're saying.

I got a little carried away with my enthusiastic list making. I apologise.

I agree that Larsson is a fine dman. I'd take him on the Flames right away. I know some people would balk at the thought that Hall and JH might be in the same realm talent-wise, but would anyone think it's fair value if we'd swapped Gaudreau for Larsson? Would anyone think it's even close?

I wouldn't. And I don't think it's close with Hall, either.

[bax]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I got a little carried away with my enthusiastic list making. I apologise.

I agree that Larsson is a fine dman. I'd take him on the Flames right away. I know some people would balk at the thought that Hall and JH might be in the same realm talent-wise, but would anyone think it's fair value if we'd swapped Gaudreau for Larsson? Would anyone think it's even close?

I wouldn't. And I don't think it's close with Hall, either.

100% agree with you! If we traded Gaudreau for Larsson I might shed a few tears.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

I got a little carried away with my enthusiastic list making. I apologise.

I agree that Larsson is a fine dman. I'd take him on the Flames right away. I know some people would balk at the thought that Hall and JH might be in the same realm talent-wise, but would anyone think it's fair value if we'd swapped Gaudreau for Larsson? Would anyone think it's even close?

I wouldn't. And I don't think it's close with Hall, either.

If we had 6 years of Gaudreau as the symbol of the 80 foot game, entitlement issues, failed rebuild situation that they've got going on in Edmonton, we might.

The situations are different and can't be compared one to one.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by nik-

If we had 6 years of Gaudreau as the symbol of the 80 foot game, entitlement issues, failed rebuild situation that they've got going on in Edmonton, we might.

The situations are different and can't be compared one to one.

I agree, which is why I posted in the other thread that it didn't set the value for young D, it set the value for Oilers.

All that said, these are all intangibles that may or may not be really true. They may be a product of the team he played for, which has truly been awful.

Is anyone going to be surprised if Hall has a Kessel-like resurgence in NJ? They shouldn't be.

[nik-]

No absolutely this doesn't set the value for young D men. Or if it does, it's only a one way value and that bubble will be burst with the next actual trade.

Personally I don't see some big resurgence from Hall. I see him just continuing to be a 65-75 point player with injury concerns and a severely limited overall game.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

First off, every stat you just posted was bolstered by the fact Larsson played in front of Schnieder.

2nd, he's still a young and developing d-man who is now going to be labeled a "solution" and thrown into the tire fire that is one of the worst defensive teams / systems in the NHL. It remains to be seen how he'll handle that being a 23 year old. It's a ton of pressure to put on a young kid.

3rd, how does the absence of Hall's goals and points automatically make Edmonton "a better team" because of a young #3 d-man being added to the worst blue-line in the league?

Gross overstatements on your part all the way around.

Yeah, minutes were bolstered by Schneider, who's now the head coach all of a sudden? Give your head a shake man. His plus/minus is affected by Schneider, who's job it is to stop the puck that Larsson can't defend. Hits are not dependant, blocked shots are not dependant, and offensive zones are not dependant on the goalie, those are dependant on the coach.

Also, Larsson wasn't brought in to replace Hall's 30 goals. I assume no person would be so ridiculous to assume such a notion, but I can't say I'm not surprised. Chia will have to find alternative avenues to replace Halls goal totals.


And yes, Chia mentioned yesterday that Larsson is going to be the top pairing guy

[sun]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Don't even know why I bother... this post is absolutely absurd.

I don't even know why you bother either. You know you could just stop... bothering.

[cannon7]

Put me in the camp that thinks Hall was an overpayment for Larsson. If this was the 1995-2005 NHL then, yeah, Larsson is a fair return for Hall. But in the post-2005 NHL you need defensemen that are well-rounded in your top four, that means they need to be a legitimate offensive threat to keep opposing forecheckers honest. In the modern NHL, a one-dimensional defenseman, be it offensive or defensive, is effectively a supporting player on an NHL blueline. Guys like Burns and Letang are what get you to the Cup finals, IMO.

That being said, Larsson is a type of player the OIlers desperately needed, so from a a position of desperation it makes all sorts of sense to overpay for him.

[McClintock]

I'm glad Hall is gone to be honest. We all saw his Houdini act when McDavid returned this past season. I dont think he can handle not being ''the guy''. That line completely fell apart down the stretch and Hall takes a ton of that blame. He was a completely different player and then he comes out with that ''saving himself'' line.

Keep that away from Connor. Get out the old losing cancers and start fresh. Its his team now and that old rotten core needs to be rid of.

They just paid the piper. This is what you get for drafting top 5 forwards for the past ten years. The return sucks but this move makes sense and a lot of people aren't seeing the positives from this yet and wont for another 6 months to a year.

All I see when I look at Hall is a failed rebuild and 10 depressing years of futility.

Sign Lucic (term scares me) Trade for Barrie, maybe sign another vet that can still play and things will start to look up.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by MarkGio

Also, Larsson wasn't brought in to replace Hall's 30 goals.

Taylor Hall has never scored 30 goals.

[McClintock]

Originally Posted by jammies

Taylor Hall has never scored 30 goals.

I think its fairly reasonable to assume that Lucic matches Halls 25 goals this season playing with Mcdavid. I could probably pot 20 with Connor.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

The last 3 years at 5 on 5....

Hall on the ice 147 GF 146 GA
Hall not on the ice 244 GF 396 GA

That is from kinger999 on Twitter

Incredibly misleading.

Hall isn't he best goal scorer in the NHL. He isn't the fastest. He isn't the toughest. He isn't a leader. He has low IQ. He is poor defensively.

One thing he is not just elite, but UBER-ELITE is how he always gets off the ice on a turnover, while having his replacement try to catch up on the play, and inevitably getting what should have been Hall's minus.

Elite I tell you, and that tweet only confirms how big that number is

[McClintock]

I cant wait to watch Larsson be eaten alive when he's playing 35 minutes a game this season on the top pairing.

[Robbob]

I think the thing that also amuses me is that shipping Hall out probably means they fast track Pulujarvi.