[News] Bettman urges new arena ASAP

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

As I have said multiple times, these things are very difficult to prove one way or the other, because no one says "well, I didn't go to a concert this month so I am going to go see a play".

If these numbers are so hard to difficult to prove, how can you confidently say that Calgary is bleeding entertainment dollars?

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

But I can throw the same question back to you: can you demonstrate any increased patronage in Calgary for other entertainment choices, compared to Edmonton?

Similar to how you have provided anecdotal evidence, I can provide some as well. However, I'd like to note that since you are arguing a case that would require a massive expenditure, the burden of proof shouldn't lie with my argument. Nevertheless, I cannot say that many people in my circles frequently attend concerts that have skipped Calgary. In contrast, years ago people flocked to Edmonton to go to raves but now the EDM scene in Calgary has caught up to and surpassed the scene in Edmonton.

Calgary has been named one of the next 13 cities to rule dance music and this is evident in how people from Edmonton and Vancouver come to Calgary for Western Canada's largest outdoor electronic music festival. Edmonton has accurately been called the Festival City yet Calgary has stepped up with Beakerhead, Chasing Summer and X-Fest. Beer Markets have taken off in recent years and Calgary has led this charge in Alberta. National has multiple locations in Calgary and it has been the Calgary-based Craft that has expanded to Edmonton.

[renny]

http://www.law.du.edu/documents/spor...pring-2011.pdf

A paper done on the economic impacts of new stadiums.

It should also be noted that many new stadiums and arenas are built simply as replacement facilities for teams that are already located in a city.

Replacing a sports venue does not produce growth in the local economy, but generally maintains the status quo on economic activities.

Opponents also point out that the multipliers, which are used in every study to determine the direct result of money spent on sports on the local economy, overestimate the impact that professional sports has on an economy because they do not properly differentiate between net and gross spending or the effects that taxes have on a community

One economic scholar noted that if the new facility is incorporated within a “complete local redevelopment plan,” including housing and stores, then the new stadium might be beneficial to the local economy

Officials go to the taxpayers and ask for public funding for new projects, assuring them that new jobs will result. However, as fiscal impact studies show, this is often the exception and not the rule. Taxpayers usually do not get a positive return on their investment

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Addick

. Edmonton has accurately been called the Festival City yet Calgary has stepped up with Beakerhead, Chasing Summer and X-Fest. Beer Markets have taken off in recent years and Calgary has led this charge in Alberta. National has multiple locations in Calgary and it has been the Calgary-based Craft that has expanded to Edmonton.

Xfest isn't a leg up on Edmonton as Xfest and Sonic Boom in Edm are the same festival, they actually use the fact that they're a "double stop" festival to attract bigger names that normally wouldn't travel this far for one show in a medium sized city.

[Wormius]

I may have missed some earlier posts, but if a public contribution is made to building the new arena, what does the city actually get equity-wise or profit sharing from hosted events? I would hope / assume the city would not just do this for the previously mentioned multiplier effect or generosity.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I may have missed some earlier posts, but if a public contribution is made to building the new arena, what does the city actually get equity-wise or profit sharing from hosted events? I would hope / assume the city would not just do this for the previously mentioned multiplier effect or generosity.

The city gets prestige. Lots and lots of prestige. You can't put a value on that.

[N-E-B]

Originally Posted by Kavvy

This argument gets used again and again. While I do see the odd major concert, am I the only one who doesn't give a rats @ss if this is one area Edmonton leads us in?

Spend the money on LRT, roads, etc over getting a few more concerts every year.

This x1000

99.99% of the acts that skip town suck anyways. We're not missing out. I understand why the Flames (or whoever gets the money) might want that revenue though.

[Kavvy]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The city gets prestige. Lots and lots of prestige. You can't put a value on that.

Oh - and the honor of paying to tear down the building in 30 years when it is obsolete.

[Funkhouser]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The city gets prestige. Lots and lots of prestige. You can't put a value on that.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The city gets prestige. Lots and lots of prestige. You can't put a value on that.

well, and you can call yourself "world class".

[corporatejay]

We are failing them': Detroit teachers demand fix to 'hazardous' school.


http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/15/health...ons/index.html


http://www.npr.org/2016/01/14/462915...uts-in-protest

but hey, they have a sweet new arena.

[CroFlames]

That is sad; Detroit really is in bad shape.

I think the Flames owners could build their own rink like VAN (although they went bankrupt after that), MTL & TOR.

The problem is they want a handout for the stadium since the CFL just can't support itself and build a new stadium.

Having a new entertainment district with a stadium & arena (like Glendale) in the middle of downtown CGY would be amazing though. Can't be done without public dollars.

[heep223]

"No way we should spend those public dollars on an arena, we need more schools and roads! It's a disgrace!"

Makes no sense. The dollars an arena would be getting would have not gone to schools or roads anyways.

I no longer feel like I have a horse in this race, but you guys are as bad as the guys on the other side pounding the table about how an arena is going to create jobs and economic benefit to the public.

[Weitz]

I wonder how it would work in Calgary in this market if the new arena was to be opening soon.

Reading up on the new Edmonton Arena, they are having issues selling the luxury seats, and being how new arenas are there are a ton more luxury seats than regular seats (compared to Rexall).

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Weitz

I wonder how it would work in Calgary in this market if the new arena was to be opening soon.

Reading up on the new Edmonton Arena, they are having issues selling the luxury seats, and being how new arenas are there are a ton more luxury seats than regular seats (compared to Rexall).

The new Yankee Stadium had the same problem. $2,500 for a luxury seat behind home plate. Those seats are half empty for most games, and that was after a price drop to $1,200. (although the fans could just be hanging out in the ritzy lounge instead of sitting in the fancy seats).

[DiracSpike]

Does anyone know the specs on how much public money went to Edmonton's arena? Just curious.

Also, I know the two sides are still pretty far apart but I find it hard to believe that there's not a deal that can be worked out whereby the city takes a cut of arena revenue. There's so much money to be made off of having possibly two premier event centres for a metro area with 1.3 million + people, we just might have to see some more give on the owners side than they want. Considering all the things the city spends money on that give virtually no return you'd think they'd be more receptive.

[heep223]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

Does anyone know the specs on how much public money went to Edmonton's arena? Just curious.

Also, I know the two sides are still pretty far apart but I find it hard to believe that there's not a deal that can be worked out whereby the city takes a cut of arena revenue. There's so much money to be made off of having possibly two premier event centres for a metro area with 1.3 million + people, we just might have to see some more give on the owners side than they want. Considering all the things the city spends money on that give virtually no return you'd think they'd be more receptive.

The arena will be funded by the following sources:[8]

• $279-million from the Community Revitalization Levy (CRL) and other incremental revenues (increased parking revenue, reallocation of existing subsidy paid to Northlands and new taxes from business in the arena)
• $125-million from ticket surcharge on all events in the new arena
• $137.81-million from lease revenue for the Arena
• $23.68-million in cash from Edmonton Arena Corporation
• $25-million from other government sources

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by heep223

The arena will be funded by the following sources:[8]

• $279-million from the Community Revitalization Levy (CRL) and other incremental revenues (increased parking revenue, reallocation of existing subsidy paid to Northlands and new taxes from business in the arena)
• $125-million from ticket surcharge on all events in the new arena
• $137.81-million from lease revenue for the Arena
• $23.68-million in cash from Edmonton Arena Corporation
• $25-million from other government sources

Excuse my ignorace, but the $137.81 million is Katz dollars, right? He's leasing the rink from the city I presume?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Excuse my ignorace, but the $137.81 million is Katz dollars, right? He's leasing the rink from the city I presume?

Yes but its not decreased by the net present value of the money over time (if I remember correctly). Its effectively a 140 million dollar interest free loan over 30?? years.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by heep223

"No way we should spend those public dollars on an arena, we need more schools and roads! It's a disgrace!"

Makes no sense. The dollars an arena would be getting would have not gone to schools or roads anyways.

I no longer feel like I have a horse in this race, but you guys are as bad as the guys on the other side pounding the table about how an arena is going to create jobs and economic benefit to the public.

Where would they go?

[heep223]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Where would they go?

Field house. CRL won't even exist without WV development.